**

We currently have a paid-for production Remedy environment and are using an 'Unlicensed' Remedy server on a different box we are using for development.

We have recently been told by our Remedy sales rep that this setup is illegal per their licensing agreements and that we have to shut the box down immediately.

I had no idea this was the case and have been running in this environment for a long time. I know for a fact that there are other companies out there with the same setup. Does anyone know that this setup is definitely not within the licensing agreements, and if so, can show me where it states it is not legal?

Thanks,

John



Do you Yahoo!?
This posting was submitted via the Web interface Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software

Good question, that last - I'd be asking it to my sales rep.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: John Schtinko [mailto:jschtinko@YAHOO.COM]
Sent: Thu 8/28/2003 1:14 PM
To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG
Cc:
Subject: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?



We currently have a paid-for production Remedy environment and are using an 'Unlicensed' Remedy server on a different box we are using for development.

We have recently been told by our Remedy sales rep that this setup is illegal per their licensing agreements and that we have to shut the box down immediately.

I had no idea this was the case and have been running in this environment for a long time. I know for a fact that there are other companies out there with the same setup. Does anyone know that this setup is definitely not within the licensing agreements, and if so, can show me where it states it is not legal?

Thanks,

John

the development license is 1/2 the cost of your original license.
the only thing you are allowed to run without a license is ARServer, as it comes with the one user. only thing about that is, you can't have more than 2000 records on any form at one time. so a server for development without any other modules is perfectly legal if you stay below the 2000 records mark. otherwise you are in an illegal format.

thx,
mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Cook [mailto:rcook@DENALIAI.COM]
Sent: Thu 8/28/2003 3:41 PM
To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG
Cc:
Subject: Re: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?



Good question, that last - I'd be asking it to my sales rep.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: John Schtinko [mailto:jschtinko@YAHOO.COM]
Sent: Thu 8/28/2003 1:14 PM
To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG
Cc:
Subject: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?



We currently have a paid-for production Remedy environment and are using an 'Unlicensed' Remedy server on a different box we are using for development.

We have recently been told by our Remedy sales rep that this setup is illegal per their licensing agreements and that we have to shut the box down immediately.

I had no idea this was the case and have been running in this environment for a long time. I know for a fact that there are other companies out there with the same setup. Does anyone know that this setup is definitely not within the licensing agreements, and if so, can show me where it states it is not legal?

Thanks,

John

Hi,

it's not possible to exceed the 2000 record limit on a Demo server.
The server notifies you with an error if you try to store record 2001, I
think.
And you don't have MPSO and can't use additional licenses or DSO.

Maybe there was a change in the licensing agreements but:
With "HelpDesk Express 4.0" Remedy promote to use their
Mini-Application (which features wasn't far away from the
full HelpDesk4 features) and their product ARS Server with
the limitation of a Demo server: 3 fixed write licenses
and 2000 records. But no-limit read licenses.

So - suddenly it's illegal to run HDExpress with a Demo Server
in a production environment?

regards
ruediger


Mark Howard schrieb:
>
> the development license is 1/2 the cost of your original license.
> the only thing you are allowed to run without a license is ARServer, as it comes with the one user. only thing about that is, you can't have more than 2000 records on any form at one time. so a server for development without any other modules is perfectly legal if you stay below the 2000 records mark. otherwise you are in an illegal format.
>
> thx,
> mark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Cook [mailto:rcook@DENALIAI.COM]
> Sent: Thu 8/28/2003 3:41 PM
> To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?
>
>
>
> Good question, that last - I'd be asking it to my sales rep.
>
> Rick
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Schtinko [mailto:jschtinko@YAHOO.COM]
> Sent: Thu 8/28/2003 1:14 PM
> To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG
> Cc:
> Subject: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?
>
>
>
> We currently have a paid-for production Remedy environment and are using an 'Unlicensed' Remedy server on a different box we are using for development.
>
> We have recently been told by our Remedy sales rep that this setup is illegal per their licensing agreements and that we have to shut the box down immediately.
>
> I had no idea this was the case and have been running in this environment for a long time. I know for a fact that there are other companies out there with the same setup. Does anyone know that this setup is definitely not within the licensing agreements, and if so, can show me where it states it is not legal?
>
> Thanks,
>
> John
>
>
>
>

--
Mit freundlichem Gru?
i.A. Ruediger Tams


+ KomTel Gesellschaft fuer
+ Kommunikations- und
+ Informationsdienste mbH
+
+ Ruediger Tams
+ Nordstra?e 2, D-24937 Flensburg
+
+ Fon: +49-461-9090-034, Fax: +49-461-9090-031
+ EMail: ruediger.tams@komtel.net, Internet: http://www.komtel.net
+
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
+

**
Yes, the Demo/Unlicensed server, with the 2000 record limitation and 3 fixed license is what we have been using as a development license and is exactly what the sales rep says is illegal by using. He says that since we are currently using Remedy in production, that the 'Demo' license is for using on a trial/evaluation basis. Now that we are using Remedy, the evaluation period is over and we are required to stop using the unlicensed server. Now my company wants to shut down the dev environment completely to avoid any legal issues (which is really going to cause me problems).

BTW, this is a rep from BMC that we are talking with...not in Cali w/Remedy. I guess BMC reps are beginning to assume other Remedy duties?

-John

-----Original Message-----

From: Mark Howard [mailto:mhoward@REACHAPPS.COM]

Sent: August 28, 2003 08:15 PM

To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG

Subject: Re: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?



the development license is 1/2 the cost of your original license.

the only thing you are allowed to run without a license is ARServer, as it comes with the one user. only thing about that is, you can't have more than 2000 records on any form at one time. so a server for development without any other modules is perfectly legal if you stay below the 2000 records mark. otherwise you are in an illegal format.

thx,

mark

-----Original Message-----

From: Rick Cook [mailto:rcook@DENALIAI.COM]

Sent: Thu 8/28/2003 3:41 PM

To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG

Cc:

Subject: Re: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?

Good question, that last - I'd be asking it to my sales rep.

Rick

-----Original Message-----

From: John Schtinko [mailto:jschtinko@YAHOO.COM]

Sent: Thu 8/28/2003 1:14 PM

To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG

Cc:

Subject: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?

We currently have a paid-for production Remedy environment and are using an 'Unlicensed' Remedy server on a different box we are using for development.

We have recently been told by our Remedy sales rep that this setup is illegal per their licensing agreements and that we have to shut the box down immediately.

I had no idea this was the case and have been running in this environment for a long time. I know for a fact that there are other companies out there with the same setup. Does anyone know that this setup is definitely not within the licensing agreements, and if so, can show me where it states it is not legal?

Thanks,

John





Do you Yahoo!?
This posting was submitted via the Web interface Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software

**
Some clarity on this issue:

- "Demo" licenses are limited to 2,000 records and typically have a limited life (90 days or less)
- "Development" licenses are full production licenses (unlimited records, unlimited life) for use in a non-production environment

Strictly speaking, "demo" licenses are for evaluation purposes only -- if they're being used in an ongoing development or production environment, then yes, you are violating your Remedy software license agreement.

However, "development" licenses are an entirely different matter, as they're intended to be used in an ongoing development environment.

Also, "development" licenses typically cost half of a production license (though full annual maintenance fees still apply). Large Remedy customers ($250K or more invested) should ask for a complimentary development license (and be aware that annual maintenance fees will still apply).

Please contact me directly if you have any questions or believe any of this information is incorrect.

-- Bing

Bradford Bingel ("Bing")
ITM3 - San Francisco Bay Area
bing@itm3.com (email)
925-260-6394 (mobile)

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of John Schtinko
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 6:28 AM
To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?


**
Yes, the Demo/Unlicensed server, with the 2000 record limitation and 3 fixed license is what we have been using as a development license and is exactly what the sales rep says is illegal by using. He says that since we are currently using Remedy in production, that the 'Demo' license is for using on a trial/evaluation basis. Now that we are using Remedy, the evaluation period is over and we are required to stop using the unlicensed server. Now my company wants to shut down the dev environment completely to avoid any legal issues (which is really going to cause me problems).

BTW, this is a rep from BMC that we are talking with...not in Cali w/Remedy. I guess BMC reps are beginning to assume other Remedy duties?

-John

-----Original Message-----

From: Mark Howard [mailto:mhoward@REACHAPPS.COM]

Sent: August 28, 2003 08:15 PM

To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG

Subject: Re: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?



the development license is 1/2 the cost of your original license.

the only thing you are allowed to run without a license is ARServer, as it comes with the one user. only thing about that is, you can't have more than 2000 records on any form at one time. so a server for development without any other modules is perfectly legal if you stay below the 2000 records mark. otherwise you are in an illegal format.

thx,

mark

-----Original Message-----

From: Rick Cook [mailto:rcook@DENALIAI.COM]

Sent: Thu 8/28/2003 3:41 PM

To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG

Cc:

Subject: Re: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?

Good question, that last - I'd be asking it to my sales rep.

Rick

-----Original Message-----

From: John Schtinko [mailto:jschtinko@YAHOO.COM]

Sent: Thu 8/28/2003 1:14 PM

To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG

Cc:

Subject: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?

We currently have a paid-for production Remedy environment and are using an 'Unlicensed' Remedy server on a different box we are using for development.

We have recently been told by our Remedy sales rep that this setup is illegal per their licensing agreements and that we have to shut the box down immediately.

I had no idea this was the case and have been running in this environment for a long time. I know for a fact that there are other companies out there with the same setup. Does anyone know that this setup is definitely not within the licensing agreements, and if so, can show me where it states it is not legal?

Thanks,

John





Do you Yahoo!?
This posting was submitted via the Web interface Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
This posting was submitted via the Web interface

**
What I would Love to see is little Different in cost for this as well. (NO Whining OT: is in the Subject line !)

1. I think the Demo Licenses should not just be limited to 2000 per form, but to Development of 2 Forms MAX (Additional) and 10 changes per form. This is a Demo only.
a. It should be Keyed by Remedy, and when the Key is activated, you have 70 days till Expiration.
b. Why am I being so Strict. Simple: I am paying for a DEV Server and paying the Fee's, You are not !
2. The DEV License should be set Something like the following.
a. You receive Whatever you have already on your Production Server (Completely) on you Dev Server (Flash,FTS,Mid-Tier, Change, Whatever) for one Fixed Price. 1/2 a Production ARS Server Only.
b. You do continue to Maint Fee's, However they are 1/3 Off the Production Cost.
c. You also Are only Allowed to have Licenses of 3 or 10 (for bigger Admin Groups) for Admin's. No More than 10 Users per Server can EVER connect to it.
Why? Cause you could just buy an Dev Server and use it for an Prod System. This is just An Idea - I can Hear the Folk Who want to LOAD test the Server.
If you need a Server that big then you need a Cluster anyways - Just add another Box if the Cluster is not big enough.

Now I maybe sounding a little on the Remedy Side of the Wall.. I would say instead ..
I am sounding more like a Customer who wants to Keep Remedy Around type.


-----Original Message-----
From: Bradford Bingel [mailto:bing@ITM3.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 1:01 PM
To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?


**
Some clarity on this issue:

- "Demo" licenses are limited to 2,000 records and typically have a limited life (90 days or less)
- "Development" licenses are full production licenses (unlimited records, unlimited life) for use in a non-production environment

Strictly speaking, "demo" licenses are for evaluation purposes only -- if they're being used in an ongoing development or production environment, then yes, you are violating your Remedy software license agreement.

However, "development" licenses are an entirely different matter, as they're intended to be used in an ongoing development environment.

Also, "development" licenses typically cost half of a production license (though full annual maintenance fees still apply). Large Remedy customers ($250K or more invested) should ask for a complimentary development license (and be aware that annual maintenance fees will still apply).

Please contact me directly if you have any questions or believe any of this information is incorrect.

-- Bing


Bradford Bingel ("Bing")
ITM3 - San Francisco Bay Area
bing@itm3.com (email)
925-260-6394 (mobile)

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of John Schtinko
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 6:28 AM
To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?


**
Yes, the Demo/Unlicensed server, with the 2000 record limitation and 3 fixed license is what we have been using as a development license and is exactly what the sales rep says is illegal by using. He says that since we are currently using Remedy in production, that the 'Demo' license is for using on a trial/evaluation basis. Now that we are using Remedy, the evaluation period is over and we are required to stop using the unlicensed server. Now my company wants to shut down the dev environment completely to avoid any legal issues (which is really going to cause me problems).

BTW, this is a rep from BMC that we are talking with...not in Cali w/Remedy. I guess BMC reps are beginning to assume other Remedy duties?

-John

-----Original Message-----

From: Mark Howard [mailto:mhoward@REACHAPPS.COM]

Sent: August 28, 2003 08:15 PM

To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG

Subject: Re: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?



the development license is 1/2 the cost of your original license.

the only thing you are allowed to run without a license is ARServer, as it comes with the one user. only thing about that is, you can't have more than 2000 records on any form at one time. so a server for development without any other modules is perfectly legal if you stay below the 2000 records mark. otherwise you are in an illegal format.



thx,

mark

-----Original Message-----

From: Rick Cook [mailto:rcook@DENALIAI.COM]

Sent: Thu 8/28/2003 3:41 PM

To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG

Cc:

Subject: Re: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?





Good question, that last - I'd be asking it to my sales rep.



Rick



-----Original Message-----

From: John Schtinko [mailto:jschtinko@YAHOO.COM]

Sent: Thu 8/28/2003 1:14 PM

To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG

Cc:

Subject: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?







We currently have a paid-for production Remedy environment and are using an 'Unlicensed' Remedy server on a different box we are using for development.



We have recently been told by our Remedy sales rep that this setup is illegal per their licensing agreements and that we have to shut the box down immediately.



I had no idea this was the case and have been running in this environment for a long time. I know for a fact that there are other companies out there with the same setup. Does anyone know that this setup is definitely not within the licensing agreements, and if so, can show me where it states it is not legal?



Thanks,



John














Do you Yahoo!?
This posting was submitted via the Web interface Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software This posting was submitted via the Web interface

This posting was submitted via the Web interface

Pat,

I don't think anyone could get a half-price production server, because you only get the dev. server deal with a full-price server. You'd have to be pretty sneaky and carry someone else's paper to actually steal a half-price license from Remedy, and the two servers' support would be tied together, too. Anyone who pulled it off successfully would be shooting themselves in their technical feet by not having a REAL dev. server.

I'm fine with a 2000 row limit on unlicensed servers.

Rick

-----Original Message-----
From: Zandi Patrick S TSgt AFRL/IFOSS [mailto:Patrick.Zandi@RL.AF.MIL]
Sent: Tue 9/2/2003 10:56 AM
To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG
Cc:
Subject: OT: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?

**
What I would Love to see is little Different in cost for this as well. (NO Whining OT: is in the Subject line !)

1. I think the Demo Licenses should not just be limited to 2000 per form, but to Development of 2 Forms MAX (Additional) and 10 changes per form. This is a Demo only.
a. It should be Keyed by Remedy, and when the Key is activated, you have 70 days till Expiration.
b. Why am I being so Strict. Simple: I am paying for a DEV Server and paying the Fee's, You are not !
2. The DEV License should be set Something like the following.
a. You receive Whatever you have already on your Production Server (Completely) on you Dev Server (Flash,FTS,Mid-Tier, Change, Whatever) for one Fixed Price. 1/2 a Production ARS Server Only.
b. You do continue to Maint Fee's, However they are 1/3 Off the Production Cost.
c. You also Are only Allowed to have Licenses of 3 or 10 (for bigger Admin Groups) for Admin's. No More than 10 Users per Server can EVER connect to it.
Why? Cause you could just buy an Dev Server and use it for an Prod System. This is just An Idea - I can Hear the Folk Who want to LOAD test the Server.
If you need a Server that big then you need a Cluster anyways - Just add another Box if the Cluster is not big enough.

Now I maybe sounding a little on the Remedy Side of the Wall.. I would say instead ..
I am sounding more like a Customer who wants to Keep Remedy Around type.

**
I think that some of the confusion from this thread comes from confusing "Demo licenses" - which are really SERVER Evaluation licenses - with an out-of-the-box install, which has a basic unlicensed server with "Demo" Fixed Write licenses.

Demo (or Evaluation) SERVER licenses have no restriction on number of records or anything else. They are fully functional licenses, except for one thing - they have an expiration date.
Development SERVER licenses are fully functional licenses, which are exactly the same as production licenses only they're cheaper because you agree not to run your business off of them, only support development for the production server - I'm not sure if they come with an expiration date or not, since we had a full license for our development server before development licenses were available.

However, neither of those are what John was talking about to start this thread. An unlicensed server comes that way out-of-the-box. It has 3 write licenses and a 2,000 record per form limitation.

Here is the licensing paragraph for development server/license:
2.3
a) Action Request System(r) Server Software. Remedy enables the Action Request System ("AR System" (r)) Software on a server through the use of an encrypted string of characters provided separately to Licensee (a "License Key"). Licensee may not install the AR System Software on any more than one server for each License Key its acquires from Remedy. Licensee may not allow access to any individual in excess of the number of individuals contemplated by the licenses, as set forth herein, purchased pursuant to all applicable Orders. If Licensee requires moving the Software to a different server, it may require a new License Key, which Remedy shall provide for a nominal fee unless Licensee is a current Maintenance subscriber.

e) Development License. Licensee must have a Write "Development" license [NOT A SERVER LICENSE - italics and comment mine] to allow an individual to conduct development and testing of applications for the AR System. Licensee shall restrict all such development and testing to a server dedicated to development and testing only and restricted from any production or commercial activity of any nature.

By virtue of the fact that Remedy gives you a Write "Development" license with the 3 licenses that come with the basic software, if you keep the development box unlicensed and separate from any other Remedy server, you are living within the limitations Remedy has set forth. Since the box is so heavily limited, that pretty much insures you can't use it for much else than development. That has always been one of the benefits of Remedy.

If you want to get into load testing and making sure that the development environment matches strictly the production environment to make sure that all factors are considered before moving your objects to production, then you can get the full development SERVER license for half price (albeit the maintenance is based on full price - which is a real rip-off as far as I can see).

But, if you are using it strictly to develop workflow and test that out, then the out-of-the-box write licenses should be all you need.

If Remedy starts acting like a Peregrine, what they are going to find is that they are nailing their own coffin shut. It may not be as flexible as Remedy, but you can develop a very sophisticated substitute strictly with an in-house developed system that lays on SQL/Oracle. You need a supported db anyway for ARS. Or, better yet really cut your costs and use MySQL or Postgres running on LINUX for free. Then of course there's always Oracle eSupport or Microsoft CRM. Although you probably pay through the nose for the Oracle, I'm going to guess that MS CRM is ALOT cheaper than ARS.

$.02

Garron Christie



-----Original Message-----
From: Zandi Patrick S TSgt AFRL/IFOSS [mailto:Patrick.Zandi@RL.AF.MIL]
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 11:56 AM
To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: OT: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?


**
What I would Love to see is little Different in cost for this as well. (NO Whining OT: is in the Subject line !)

1. I think the Demo Licenses should not just be limited to 2000 per form, but to Development of 2 Forms MAX (Additional) and 10 changes per form. This is a Demo only.
a. It should be Keyed by Remedy, and when the Key is activated, you have 70 days till Expiration.
b. Why am I being so Strict. Simple: I am paying for a DEV Server and paying the Fee's, You are not !
2. The DEV License should be set Something like the following.
a. You receive Whatever you have already on your Production Server (Completely) on you Dev Server (Flash,FTS,Mid-Tier, Change, Whatever) for one Fixed Price. 1/2 a Production ARS Server Only.
b. You do continue to Maint Fee's, However they are 1/3 Off the Production Cost.
c. You also Are only Allowed to have Licenses of 3 or 10 (for bigger Admin Groups) for Admin's. No More than 10 Users per Server can EVER connect to it.
Why? Cause you could just buy an Dev Server and use it for an Prod System. This is just An Idea - I can Hear the Folk Who want to LOAD test the Server.
If you need a Server that big then you need a Cluster anyways - Just add another Box if the Cluster is not big enough.

Now I maybe sounding a little on the Remedy Side of the Wall.. I would say instead ..
I am sounding more like a Customer who wants to Keep Remedy Around type.


-----Original Message-----
From: Bradford Bingel [mailto:bing@ITM3.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 1:01 PM
To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?


**
Some clarity on this issue:

- "Demo" licenses are limited to 2,000 records and typically have a limited life (90 days or less)
- "Development" licenses are full production licenses (unlimited records, unlimited life) for use in a non-production environment

Strictly speaking, "demo" licenses are for evaluation purposes only -- if they're being used in an ongoing development or production environment, then yes, you are violating your Remedy software license agreement.

However, "development" licenses are an entirely different matter, as they're intended to be used in an ongoing development environment.

Also, "development" licenses typically cost half of a production license (though full annual maintenance fees still apply). Large Remedy customers ($250K or more invested) should ask for a complimentary development license (and be aware that annual maintenance fees will still apply).

Please contact me directly if you have any questions or believe any of this information is incorrect.

-- Bing


Bradford Bingel ("Bing")
ITM3 - San Francisco Bay Area
bing@itm3.com (email)
925-260-6394 (mobile)

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of John Schtinko
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 6:28 AM
To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?


**
Yes, the Demo/Unlicensed server, with the 2000 record limitation and 3 fixed license is what we have been using as a development license and is exactly what the sales rep says is illegal by using. He says that since we are currently using Remedy in production, that the 'Demo' license is for using on a trial/evaluation basis. Now that we are using Remedy, the evaluation period is over and we are required to stop using the unlicensed server. Now my company wants to shut down the dev environment completely to avoid any legal issues (which is really going to cause me problems).

BTW, this is a rep from BMC that we are talking with...not in Cali w/Remedy. I guess BMC reps are beginning to assume other Remedy duties?

-John

-----Original Message-----

From: Mark Howard [mailto:mhoward@REACHAPPS.COM]

Sent: August 28, 2003 08:15 PM

To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG

Subject: Re: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?



the development license is 1/2 the cost of your original license.

the only thing you are allowed to run without a license is ARServer, as it comes with the one user. only thing about that is, you can't have more than 2000 records on any form at one time. so a server for development without any other modules is perfectly legal if you stay below the 2000 records mark. otherwise you are in an illegal format.



thx,

mark

-----Original Message-----

From: Rick Cook [mailto:rcook@DENALIAI.COM]

Sent: Thu 8/28/2003 3:41 PM

To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG

Cc:

Subject: Re: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?





Good question, that last - I'd be asking it to my sales rep.



Rick



-----Original Message-----

From: John Schtinko [mailto:jschtinko@YAHOO.COM]

Sent: Thu 8/28/2003 1:14 PM

To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG

Cc:

Subject: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?







We currently have a paid-for production Remedy environment and are using an 'Unlicensed' Remedy server on a different box we are using for development.



We have recently been told by our Remedy sales rep that this setup is illegal per their licensing agreements and that we have to shut the box down immediately.



I had no idea this was the case and have been running in this environment for a long time. I know for a fact that there are other companies out there with the same setup. Does anyone know that this setup is definitely not within the licensing agreements, and if so, can show me where it states it is not legal?



Thanks,



John














Do you Yahoo!?
This posting was submitted via the Web interface Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software This posting was submitted via the Web interface

This posting was submitted via the Web interface

This posting was submitted via the Web interface

**
Just to put in my $0.02 worth, I absolutely love the AR System development platform and think it is one of the best tools for building out virtually any business system. There are a good number of companies (e.g., Oracle, IBM, BEA, etc.) who will let developers download and install full versions of their products under the provision they are not used in a "production" capacity. I would like to see Remedy embrace this approach with all their products. I think that if developers have the opportunity to play around with the full spectrum of AR System products then perhaps they would be more apt to find ways to use them in a licensed, production capacity.

Back in the early days my old company, Venimex, we were primarily a custom AR System development shop. We were thrilled at the prospect of playing around with the Approval Server and the Enterprise Integration Engine when they were released. However, for whatever the reason (perhaps we were too small - only twenty five strong) at the time we asked for but were not given demo licenses for all our consultants to work with these products. As such, our developers didn't become familiar with the tools so we built custom solutions for a number of opportunities that may have been a good fit for Approval Server or EIE. Further, because of the modular way in which we built out solutions, we developed reusable components that provided the requisite functionality which we could then reuse from customer to customer.

Being a realist and acknowledging the rampant way that software is pirated in today's world, I strongly support Remedy devising ways to ensure that people don't use an unlicensed AR System server for "production" use. I have no problem being limited to three fixed licenses and a maximum of 2000 rows per form. That is more than sufficient for development. I do, however, think that developers should be able to have full use of all components of the AR System product suite for development and/or self-learning purposes only.

Derek

On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 16:37, Christie, Garron wrote:

**
I think that some of the confusion from this thread comes from confusing "Demo licenses" - which are really SERVER Evaluation licenses - with an out-of-the-box install, which has a basic unlicensed server with "Demo" Fixed Write licenses.

Demo (or Evaluation) SERVER licenses have no restriction on number of records or anything else. They are fully functional licenses, except for one thing - they have an expiration date.
Development SERVERlicenses are fully functional licenses, which are exactly the same as production licenses only they're cheaper because you agree not to run your business off of them, only support development for the production server - I'm not sure if they come with an expiration date or not, since we had a full license for our development server before development licenses were available.

However, neither of those are what John was talking about to start this thread. An unlicensed server comes that way out-of-the-box. It has 3 write licenses and a 2,000 record per form limitation.

Here is the licensing paragraph for development server/license:
2.3
a) Action Request System(r) Server Software. Remedy enables the Action Request System ("AR System" (r)) Software on a server through the use of an encrypted string of characters provided separately to Licensee (a "License Key"). Licensee may not install the AR System Software on any more than one server for each License Key its acquires from Remedy. Licensee may not allow access to any individual in excess of the number of individuals contemplated by the licenses, as set forth herein, purchased pursuant to all applicable Orders. If Licensee requires moving the Software to a different server, it may require a new License Key, which Remedy shall provide for a nominal fee unless Licensee is a current Maintenance subscriber.

e) Development License. Licensee must have a Write "Development" license [NOT A SERVER LICENSE - italics and comment mine] to allow an individual to conduct development and testing of applications for the AR System. Licensee shall restrict all such development and testing to a server dedicated to development and testing only and restricted from any production or commercial activity of any nature.

By virtue of the fact that Remedy gives you a Write "Development" license with the 3 licenses that come with the basic software, if you keep the development box unlicensed and separate from any other Remedy server, you are living within the limitations Remedy has set forth. Since the box is so heavily limited, that pretty much insures you can't use it for much else than development. That has always been one of the benefits of Remedy.

If you want to get into load testing and making sure that the development environment matches strictly the production environment to make sure that all factors are considered before moving your objects to production, then you can get the full development SERVER license for half price (albeit the maintenance is based on full price - which is a real rip-off as far as I can see).

But, if you are using it strictly to develop workflow and test that out, then the out-of-the-box write licenses should be all you need.

If Remedy starts acting like a Peregrine, what they are going to find is that they are nailing their own coffin shut. It may not be as flexible as Remedy, but you can develop a very sophisticated substitute strictly with an in-house developed system that lays on SQL/Oracle. You need a supported db anyway for ARS. Or, better yet really cut your costs and use MySQL or Postgres running on LINUX for free. Then of course there's always Oracle eSupport or Microsoft CRM. Although you probably pay through the nose for the Oracle, I'm going to guess that MS CRM is ALOT cheaper than ARS.

$.02

Garron Christie



-----Original Message-----
From: Zandi Patrick S TSgt AFRL/IFOSS [mailto:Patrick.Zandi@RL.AF.MIL]
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 11:56 AM
To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: OT: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?


**
What I would Love to see is little Different in cost for this as well. (NO Whining OT: is in the Subject line !)

1. I think the Demo Licenses should not just be limited to 2000 per form, but to Development of 2 Forms MAX (Additional) and 10 changes per form. This is a Demo only.
a. It should be Keyed by Remedy, and when the Key is activated, you have 70 days till Expiration.
b. Why am I being so Strict. Simple: I am paying for a DEV Server and paying the Fee's, You are not !
2. The DEV License should be set Something like the following.
a. You receive Whatever you have already on your Production Server (Completely) on you Dev Server (Flash,FTS,Mid-Tier, Change, Whatever) for one Fixed Price. 1/2 a Production ARS Server Only.
b. You do continue to Maint Fee's, However they are 1/3 Off the Production Cost.
c. You also Are only Allowed to have Licenses of 3 or 10 (for bigger Admin Groups) for Admin's. No More than 10 Users per Server can EVER connect to it.
Why? Cause you could just buy an Dev Server and use it for an Prod System. This is just An Idea - I can Hear the Folk Who want to LOAD test the Server.
If you need a Server that big then you need a Cluster anyways - Just add another Box if the Cluster is not big enough.

Now I maybe sounding a little on the Remedy Side of the Wall.. I would say instead ..
I am sounding more like a Customer who wants to Keep Remedy Around type.


-----Original Message-----
From: Bradford Bingel [mailto:bing@ITM3.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 1:01 PM
To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?


**
Some clarity on this issue:

- "Demo" licenses are limited to 2,000 records and typically have a limited life (90 days or less)
- "Development" licenses are full production licenses (unlimited records, unlimited life) for use in a non-production environment

Strictly speaking, "demo" licenses are for evaluation purposes only -- if they're being used in an ongoing development or production environment, then yes, you are violating your Remedy software license agreement.

However, "development" licenses are an entirely different matter, as they're intended to be used in an ongoing development environment.

Also, "development" licenses typically cost half of a production license (though full annual maintenance fees still apply). Large Remedy customers ($250K or more invested) should ask for a complimentary development license (and be aware that annual maintenance fees will still apply).

Please contact me directly if you have any questions or believe any of this information is incorrect.

-- Bing

Bradford Bingel ("Bing")
ITM3 - San Francisco Bay Area
bing@itm3.com (email)
925-260-6394 (mobile)

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of John Schtinko
Sent: Friday, August 29, 2003 6:28 AM
To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?


**

Yes, the Demo/Unlicensed server, with the 2000 record limitation and 3 fixed license is what we have been using as a development license and is exactly what the sales rep says is illegal by using. He says that since we are currently using Remedy in production, that the 'Demo' license is for using on a trial/evaluation basis. Now that we are using Remedy, the evaluation period is over and we are required to stop using the unlicensed server. Now my company wants to shut down the dev environment completely to avoid any legal issues (which is really going to cause me problems).

BTW, this is a rep from BMC that we are talking with...not in Cali w/Remedy. I guess BMC reps are beginning to assume other Remedy duties?

-John

-----Original Message-----

From: Mark Howard [mailto:mhoward@REACHAPPS.COM]

Sent: August 28, 2003 08:15 PM

To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG

Subject: Re: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?



the development license is 1/2 the cost of your original license.

the only thing you are allowed to run without a license is ARServer, as it comes with the one user. only thing about that is, you can't have more than 2000 records on any form at one time. so a server for development without any other modules is perfectly legal if you stay below the 2000 records mark. otherwise you are in an illegal format.

thx,

mark

-----Original Message-----

From: Rick Cook [mailto:rcook@DENALIAI.COM]

Sent: Thu 8/28/2003 3:41 PM

To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG

Cc:

Subject: Re: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?

Good question, that last - I'd be asking it to my sales rep.

Rick

-----Original Message-----

From: John Schtinko [mailto:jschtinko@YAHOO.COM]

Sent: Thu 8/28/2003 1:14 PM

To: ARSLIST@ARSLIST.ORG

Cc:

Subject: "Demo" or "Unlicensed" Illegal as dev environment?

We currently have a paid-for production Remedy environment and are using an 'Unlicensed' Remedy server on a different box we are using for development.

We have recently been told by our Remedy sales rep that this setup is illegal per their licensing agreements and that we have to shut the box down immediately.

I had no idea this was the case and have been running in this environment for a long time. I know for a fact that there are other companies out there with the same setup. Does anyone know that this setup is definitely not within the licensing agreements, and if so, can show me where it states it is not legal?

Thanks,

John







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