**

If we have a RUG2003 and BMC has it's User Groups take part in it
we will then have a BUG in a RUG.



I am actually suprised that we haven't heard yet about when and where for
RUG 2003, but I'm sure the folks are busy.

And now I shall return to playing with Remedy 5.1 and trying to get check
boxes to show up.

.....dan
Dan Bloom
ARSList Founder and Administrator


You may control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE,and ACCESS THE ARCHIVES at http://www.ARSLIST.org

**

Dan, The Executive Forum in Philadelphia announced RUG 2003 will be in
April/May in San Francisco.

checkboxES? I've only been able to get one box to show up per field.
Is this a bug? I might as well use single radio buttons.

John J. Reiser
Software Development Analyst
Remedy Administrator
voice: (856) 722-4743
fax: (856) 273-5149
Lockheed Martin
199 Borton Landing Rd.
MS 137-104
Moorestown, NJ 08057
Naval Electronics & Surveillance Systems - Surface Systems
The star that burns twice as bright burns half as long.
Pay close attention and be illuminated by its brilliance. - paraphrased by
me


-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Bloom, ARSList Founder and Administrator
[mailto:dan.bloom@SYMPATICO.CA]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:11 AM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.QMXS.COM
Subject: Overtime: Friday


**

If we have a RUG2003 and BMC has it's User Groups take part in it
we will then have a BUG in a RUG.



I am actually suprised that we haven't heard yet about when and where for
RUG 2003, but I'm sure the folks are busy.

And now I shall return to playing with Remedy 5.1 and trying to get check
boxes to show up.

.....dan
Dan Bloom
ARSList Founder and Administrator



You may control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE,and ACCESS
THE ARCHIVES at http://www.ARSLIST.org


You may control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE,and ACCESS THE ARCHIVES at http://www.ARSLIST.org

**

Thanks... BUG in a RUG... liked that...

Will be testing the impact of the 5.1 upgrade against "out of the box" Remedy.

We have strategically made a few changes to standard forms..
Added two Pages to ASSET Form pageholder.. with a couple of new fields...
added a RadioButton to the General Panel (also on ASSET)
Changed three labels on the LOCATION form.

Next, we will run the upgrade.. to see if the (minor) customization holds....

I will report on the results...

If I were a betting man.. I might say:
1. new Pages - odds favor that they will show up after upgrade
2. added RadionButton on existing page - again odds favor field will show..
3. Label change on existing field - Odds are label will revert to standard label...

Phil


-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Bloom, ARSList Founder and Administrator
[ mailto:dan.bloom@SYMPATICO.CA]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:11 AM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.QMXS.COM
Subject: Overtime: Friday


**

If we have a RUG2003 and BMC has it's User Groups take part in it
we will then have a BUG in a RUG.



I am actually suprised that we haven't heard yet about when and where for
RUG 2003, but I'm sure the folks are busy.

And now I shall return to playing with Remedy 5.1 and trying to get check
boxes to show up.

.....dan
Dan Bloom
ARSList Founder and Administrator


You may control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE,and ACCESS THE ARCHIVES at http://www.ARSLIST.org

You may also control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE, at http://www.ARSLIST.org This posting was submitted via the Web interface

**

John,
No. The single checkbox is not a bug. In GUI design, checkboxes are either "On" or "Off". In a group of selections, check boxes allow for multiple choices among a group of choices while radio buttons are supposed to allow a single choice among a group. Because ARS will not allow you to make multiple selections in a radio/drop down/checkbox list, you must create individual fields for each checkbox. It is documented in the basic guide that even if you place multiple choices in the selection field, if it is a checkbox, only the first will show up.

Hope this helps.

Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Reiser, John J [mailto:john.j.reiser@lmco.com]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:33 AM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.QMXS.COM
Subject: Re: Overtime: Friday


**

Dan, The Executive Forum in Philadelphia announced RUG 2003 will be in
April/May in San Francisco.

checkboxES? I've only been able to get one box to show up per field.
Is this a bug? I might as well use single radio buttons.

John J. Reiser
Software Development Analyst
Remedy Administrator
voice: (856) 722-4743
fax: (856) 273-5149
Lockheed Martin
199 Borton Landing Rd.
MS 137-104
Moorestown, NJ 08057
Naval Electronics & Surveillance Systems - Surface Systems
The star that burns twice as bright burns half as long.
Pay close attention and be illuminated by its brilliance. - paraphrased by
me


-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Bloom, ARSList Founder and Administrator
[mailto:dan.bloom@SYMPATICO.CA]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:11 AM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.QMXS.COM
Subject: Overtime: Friday


**

If we have a RUG2003 and BMC has it's User Groups take part in it
we will then have a BUG in a RUG.



I am actually suprised that we haven't heard yet about when and where for
RUG 2003, but I'm sure the folks are busy.

And now I shall return to playing with Remedy 5.1 and trying to get check
boxes to show up.

.....dan
Dan Bloom
ARSList Founder and Administrator



You may control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE,and ACCESS
THE ARCHIVES at http://www.ARSLIST.org


You may control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE,and ACCESS THE ARCHIVES at http://www.ARSLIST.org


*****
"The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers."


You may control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE,and ACCESS THE ARCHIVES at http://www.ARSLIST.org

**

Scott,
Your right about this "being as designed".


And I will add that I think Remedy missed the boat on this.
What about the condition where you want the user to select 1 of the
N options. If you want to use a checkbox "GUI" to do it then you have to
create N selection fields, all set to use "checkbox" GUI, and then create
workflow that makes sure the other 4 fields are "$ NULL$" when any of the
five are selected. If one selection field could display all values with a
checkbox for each, then this "extra stuff" would not be needed.
True, if you want the user to pick more than one option, then there
still would need to be multiple selection fields, but that is the same for
the "Radio Button" GUI too.

I understand that one selection field = one selection value at a
time. That is fine. However the "Checkbox" Vs. "Radio Button" is a GUI thing
and not a "Data" thing. By restricting the GUI Checkbox to only show the
"first value" Remedy took something that might have been pretty to some
and made it more of a pain. (If I want separate objects for each "checkbox",
I could do that with buttons. (See the v4.5 sample app.)


--
Carey Matthew Black

Solution = People + Process + Tools
Fast, Accurate, Cheap.... Pick two.

-----Original Message-----
From: Parrish, Scott [mailto:Scott.Parish@BELLSOUTH.COM]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:14 AM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.QMXS.COM
Subject: Re: Overtime: Friday


**

John,
No. The single checkbox is not a bug. In GUI design, checkboxes are either
"On" or "Off". In a group of selections, check boxes allow for multiple
choices among a group of choices while radio buttons are supposed to allow a
single choice among a group. Because ARS will not allow you to make multiple
selections in a radio/drop down/checkbox list, you must create individual
fields for each checkbox. It is documented in the basic guide that even if
you place multiple choices in the selection field, if it is a checkbox, only
the first will show up.

Hope this helps.

Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Reiser, John J [mailto:john.j.reiser@lmco.com]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:33 AM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.QMXS.COM
Subject: Re: Overtime: Friday


**

Dan, The Executive Forum in Philadelphia announced RUG 2003 will be in
April/May in San Francisco.

checkboxES? I've only been able to get one box to show up per field.
Is this a bug? I might as well use single radio buttons.

John J. Reiser
Software Development Analyst
Remedy Administrator
voice: (856) 722-4743
fax: (856) 273-5149
Lockheed Martin
199 Borton Landing Rd.
MS 137-104
Moorestown, NJ 08057
Naval Electronics & Surveillance Systems - Surface Systems
The star that burns twice as bright burns half as long.
Pay close attention and be illuminated by its brilliance. - paraphrased by
me


-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Bloom, ARSList Founder and Administrator
[mailto:dan.bloom@SYMPATICO.CA]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:11 AM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.QMXS.COM
Subject: Overtime: Friday


**

If we have a RUG2003 and BMC has it's User Groups take part in it
we will then have a BUG in a RUG.



I am actually suprised that we haven't heard yet about when and where for
RUG 2003, but I'm sure the folks are busy.

And now I shall return to playing with Remedy 5.1 and trying to get check
boxes to show up.

.....dan
Dan Bloom
ARSList Founder and Administrator



You may control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE,and ACCESS
THE ARCHIVES at http://www.ARSLIST.org



You may control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE,and ACCESS
THE ARCHIVES at http://www.ARSLIST.org


*****
"The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or
privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all
computers."



You may control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE,and ACCESS
THE ARCHIVES at http://www.ARSLIST.org


You may control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE,and ACCESS THE ARCHIVES at http://www.ARSLIST.org

**

My read into this functionality is that Remedy is forcing you to use the "checkbox GUI thing" the way it is intended. Frankly, using a checkbox to force a user to a single selection among a group of selections is poor design. (I understand that you already know this.) While the Radio vs. Checkbox thing may be a GUI thing, it does go beyond that. It is a usability issue. Users in the GUI world know that if they have a radio button with three selections, they may choose only one. The same user also knows that if there are three checkboxes they may choose to select none, one, two or all three. I really do not see any other way Remedy could have implemented the checkboxes, except to allow developers to use them in a manner in which they weren't intended. The same way we USED to be forced to use radio buttons to mimic checkbox functionality.

That being said, I would have liked to have been able to put five selections in the attributes for the checkbox field and allowed the user to select any permutation of all five. Only thing is, I don't know how the ARS system could have implemented that type of functionality. But, maybe I'm just not thinking out of the box enough.

Ok, off of my soapbox.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: Black, Matt [mailto:matt.black@verizon.com]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 11:38 AM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.QMXS.COM
Subject: Re: Overtime: Friday


**

Scott,
Your right about this "being as designed".


And I will add that I think Remedy missed the boat on this.
What about the condition where you want the user to select 1 of the
N options. If you want to use a checkbox "GUI" to do it then you have to
create N selection fields, all set to use "checkbox" GUI, and then create
workflow that makes sure the other 4 fields are "$ NULL$" when any of the
five are selected. If one selection field could display all values with a
checkbox for each, then this "extra stuff" would not be needed.
True, if you want the user to pick more than one option, then there
still would need to be multiple selection fields, but that is the same for
the "Radio Button" GUI too.

I understand that one selection field = one selection value at a
time. That is fine. However the "Checkbox" Vs. "Radio Button" is a GUI thing
and not a "Data" thing. By restricting the GUI Checkbox to only show the
"first value" Remedy took something that might have been pretty to some
and made it more of a pain. (If I want separate objects for each "checkbox",
I could do that with buttons. (See the v4.5 sample app.)


--
Carey Matthew Black

Solution = People + Process + Tools
Fast, Accurate, Cheap.... Pick two.

-----Original Message-----
From: Parrish, Scott [mailto:Scott.Parish@BELLSOUTH.COM]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:14 AM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.QMXS.COM
Subject: Re: Overtime: Friday


**

John,
No. The single checkbox is not a bug. In GUI design, checkboxes are either
"On" or "Off". In a group of selections, check boxes allow for multiple
choices among a group of choices while radio buttons are supposed to allow a
single choice among a group. Because ARS will not allow you to make multiple
selections in a radio/drop down/checkbox list, you must create individual
fields for each checkbox. It is documented in the basic guide that even if
you place multiple choices in the selection field, if it is a checkbox, only
the first will show up.

Hope this helps.

Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Reiser, John J [mailto:john.j.reiser@lmco.com]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:33 AM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.QMXS.COM
Subject: Re: Overtime: Friday


**

Dan, The Executive Forum in Philadelphia announced RUG 2003 will be in
April/May in San Francisco.

checkboxES? I've only been able to get one box to show up per field.
Is this a bug? I might as well use single radio buttons.

John J. Reiser
Software Development Analyst
Remedy Administrator
voice: (856) 722-4743
fax: (856) 273-5149
Lockheed Martin
199 Borton Landing Rd.
MS 137-104
Moorestown, NJ 08057
Naval Electronics & Surveillance Systems - Surface Systems
The star that burns twice as bright burns half as long.
Pay close attention and be illuminated by its brilliance. - paraphrased by
me


-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Bloom, ARSList Founder and Administrator
[mailto:dan.bloom@SYMPATICO.CA]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:11 AM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.QMXS.COM
Subject: Overtime: Friday


**

If we have a RUG2003 and BMC has it's User Groups take part in it
we will then have a BUG in a RUG.



I am actually suprised that we haven't heard yet about when and where for
RUG 2003, but I'm sure the folks are busy.

And now I shall return to playing with Remedy 5.1 and trying to get check
boxes to show up.

.....dan
Dan Bloom
ARSList Founder and Administrator



You may control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE,and ACCESS
THE ARCHIVES at http://www.ARSLIST.org



You may control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE,and ACCESS
THE ARCHIVES at http://www.ARSLIST.org


*****
"The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or
privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all
computers."



You may control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE,and ACCESS
THE ARCHIVES at http://www.ARSLIST.org


You may control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE,and ACCESS THE ARCHIVES at http://www.ARSLIST.org


*****
"The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all computers."


You may control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE,and ACCESS THE ARCHIVES at http://www.ARSLIST.org

**

Matt,

I think that people are missing the intended benefit (imho, the only reason
to have check boxes) and that is to help the users understand the system.

If you look at just about ANY other development environment, you will find
that if you want multiple check box options, you create multiple check
boxes. If you want someone to choose 1 on n options, you use radio buttons.
Check boxes are for the ability to choose x of n options. X being <= n.

For instance, we have forms that the users fill out, where they choose any
combination of many choices. Currently we have it all as single radio
buttons, and for ourselves, that is a pain. Just as much of a pain as with
check boxes. However for the users, radio buttons mean, they can only
choose one of the options. So therefore, check boxes help remove that
confusion from the users.

Admittedly, there isn't much benefit from a developer stand point, however,
there is the benefit of less training to teach the users the idiosyncrasies
of the Action Request system. I believe that is the real benefit of check
boxes. If anyone disagrees with me, please feel free to offer rebuttal.

Brian Goralczyk
Verizon Wireless

-----Original Message-----
From: Black, Matt [mailto:matt.black@verizon.com]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 11:38 AM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.QMXS.COM
Subject: Re: [ARSLIST] Overtime: Friday


**

Scott,
Your right about this "being as designed".


And I will add that I think Remedy missed the boat on this.
What about the condition where you want the user to select 1 of the
N options. If you want to use a checkbox "GUI" to do it then you have to
create N selection fields, all set to use "checkbox" GUI, and then create
workflow that makes sure the other 4 fields are "$ NULL$" when any of the
five are selected. If one selection field could display all values with a
checkbox for each, then this "extra stuff" would not be needed.
True, if you want the user to pick more than one option, then there
still would need to be multiple selection fields, but that is the same for
the "Radio Button" GUI too.

I understand that one selection field = one selection value at a
time. That is fine. However the "Checkbox" Vs. "Radio Button" is a GUI thing
and not a "Data" thing. By restricting the GUI Checkbox to only show the
"first value" Remedy took something that might have been pretty to some
and made it more of a pain. (If I want separate objects for each "checkbox",
I could do that with buttons. (See the v4.5 sample app.)


--
Carey Matthew Black

Solution = People + Process + Tools
Fast, Accurate, Cheap.... Pick two.

-----Original Message-----
From: Parrish, Scott [mailto:Scott.Parish@BELLSOUTH.COM]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:14 AM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.QMXS.COM
Subject: Re: Overtime: Friday


**

John,
No. The single checkbox is not a bug. In GUI design, checkboxes are either
"On" or "Off". In a group of selections, check boxes allow for multiple
choices among a group of choices while radio buttons are supposed to allow a
single choice among a group. Because ARS will not allow you to make multiple
selections in a radio/drop down/checkbox list, you must create individual
fields for each checkbox. It is documented in the basic guide that even if
you place multiple choices in the selection field, if it is a checkbox, only
the first will show up.

Hope this helps.

Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Reiser, John J [mailto:john.j.reiser@lmco.com]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:33 AM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.QMXS.COM
Subject: Re: Overtime: Friday


**

Dan, The Executive Forum in Philadelphia announced RUG 2003 will be in
April/May in San Francisco.

checkboxES? I've only been able to get one box to show up per field.
Is this a bug? I might as well use single radio buttons.

John J. Reiser
Software Development Analyst
Remedy Administrator
voice: (856) 722-4743
fax: (856) 273-5149
Lockheed Martin
199 Borton Landing Rd.
MS 137-104
Moorestown, NJ 08057
Naval Electronics & Surveillance Systems - Surface Systems
The star that burns twice as bright burns half as long.
Pay close attention and be illuminated by its brilliance. - paraphrased by
me


-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Bloom, ARSList Founder and Administrator
[mailto:dan.bloom@SYMPATICO.CA]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:11 AM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.QMXS.COM
Subject: Overtime: Friday


**

If we have a RUG2003 and BMC has it's User Groups take part in it
we will then have a BUG in a RUG.



I am actually suprised that we haven't heard yet about when and where for
RUG 2003, but I'm sure the folks are busy.

And now I shall return to playing with Remedy 5.1 and trying to get check
boxes to show up.

.....dan
Dan Bloom
ARSList Founder and Administrator



You may control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE,and ACCESS
THE ARCHIVES at http://www.ARSLIST.org



You may control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE,and ACCESS
THE ARCHIVES at http://www.ARSLIST.org


*****
"The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or
privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all
computers."



You may control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE,and ACCESS
THE ARCHIVES at http://www.ARSLIST.org



You may control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE,and ACCESS
THE ARCHIVES at http://www.ARSLIST.org


You may control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE,and ACCESS THE ARCHIVES at http://www.ARSLIST.org

**

That's what I said, only you said it better.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Goralczyk [mailto:Brian.Goralczyk@VerizonWireless.com]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 11:58 AM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.QMXS.COM
Subject: Re: Overtime: Friday


**

Matt,

I think that people are missing the intended benefit (imho, the only reason
to have check boxes) and that is to help the users understand the system.

If you look at just about ANY other development environment, you will find
that if you want multiple check box options, you create multiple check
boxes. If you want someone to choose 1 on n options, you use radio buttons.
Check boxes are for the ability to choose x of n options. X being <= n.

For instance, we have forms that the users fill out, where they choose any
combination of many choices. Currently we have it all as single radio
buttons, and for ourselves, that is a pain. Just as much of a pain as with
check boxes. However for the users, radio buttons mean, they can only
choose one of the options. So therefore, check boxes help remove that
confusion from the users.

Admittedly, there isn't much benefit from a developer stand point, however,
there is the benefit of less training to teach the users the idiosyncrasies
of the Action Request system. I believe that is the real benefit of check
boxes. If anyone disagrees with me, please feel free to offer rebuttal.

Brian Goralczyk
Verizon Wireless

-----Original Message-----
From: Black, Matt [mailto:matt.black@verizon.com]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 11:38 AM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.QMXS.COM
Subject: Re: [ARSLIST] Overtime: Friday


**

Scott,
Your right about this "being as designed".


And I will add that I think Remedy missed the boat on this.
What about the condition where you want the user to select 1 of the
N options. If you want to use a checkbox "GUI" to do it then you have to
create N selection fields, all set to use "checkbox" GUI, and then create
workflow that makes sure the other 4 fields are "$ NULL$" when any of the
five are selected. If one selection field could display all values with a
checkbox for each, then this "extra stuff" would not be needed.
True, if you want the user to pick more than one option, then there
still would need to be multiple selection fields, but that is the same for
the "Radio Button" GUI too.

I understand that one selection field = one selection value at a
time. That is fine. However the "Checkbox" Vs. "Radio Button" is a GUI thing
and not a "Data" thing. By restricting the GUI Checkbox to only show the
"first value" Remedy took something that might have been pretty to some
and made it more of a pain. (If I want separate objects for each "checkbox",
I could do that with buttons. (See the v4.5 sample app.)


--
Carey Matthew Black

Solution = People + Process + Tools
Fast, Accurate, Cheap.... Pick two.

-----Original Message-----
From: Parrish, Scott [mailto:Scott.Parish@BELLSOUTH.COM]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:14 AM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.QMXS.COM
Subject: Re: Overtime: Friday


**

John,
No. The single checkbox is not a bug. In GUI design, checkboxes are either
"On" or "Off". In a group of selections, check boxes allow for multiple
choices among a group of choices while radio buttons are supposed to allow a
single choice among a group. Because ARS will not allow you to make multiple
selections in a radio/drop down/checkbox list, you must create individual
fields for each checkbox. It is documented in the basic guide that even if
you place multiple choices in the selection field, if it is a checkbox, only
the first will show up.

Hope this helps.

Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Reiser, John J [mailto:john.j.reiser@lmco.com]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:33 AM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.QMXS.COM
Subject: Re: Overtime: Friday


**

Dan, The Executive Forum in Philadelphia announced RUG 2003 will be in
April/May in San Francisco.

checkboxES? I've only been able to get one box to show up per field.
Is this a bug? I might as well use single radio buttons.

John J. Reiser
Software Development Analyst
Remedy Administrator
voice: (856) 722-4743
fax: (856) 273-5149
Lockheed Martin
199 Borton Landing Rd.
MS 137-104
Moorestown, NJ 08057
Naval Electronics & Surveillance Systems - Surface Systems
The star that burns twice as bright burns half as long.
Pay close attention and be illuminated by its brilliance. - paraphrased by
me


-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Bloom, ARSList Founder and Administrator
[mailto:dan.bloom@SYMPATICO.CA]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:11 AM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.QMXS.COM
Subject: Overtime: Friday


**

If we have a RUG2003 and BMC has it's User Groups take part in it
we will then have a BUG in a RUG.



I am actually suprised that we haven't heard yet about when and where for
RUG 2003, but I'm sure the folks are busy.

And now I shall return to playing with Remedy 5.1 and trying to get check
boxes to show up.

.....dan
Dan Bloom
ARSList Founder and Administrator



You may control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE,and ACCESS
THE ARCHIVES at http://www.ARSLIST.org



You may control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE,and ACCESS
THE ARCHIVES at http://www.ARSLIST.org


*****
"The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to
which it is addressed and may contain confidential, proprietary, and/or
privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all
computers."



You may control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE,and ACCESS
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**

Exactly!

Check boxes vs. Radio buttons are a User Interface issue.
Easier to learn and understand. Radio buttons mean 1 choice only, check
boxes bean multiple choices.

And to the point of having one field that allowed multiple selections:
How would you represent that in the data base?
How, as a developer, would I use that data?

I can only imagine it as a concatenation of values, which becomes
detrimental to the performance of the application.

I think Remedy got it right on here. The only think I might have done
differently:
Made check box fields a completely different field type, as to avoid
confusing the administrator. But, I could probably shoot some holes in that
idea also.

my 2 cents...keep the change :)

Mark Blankenship
Vista IT - Technology Office
Austin, TX
mailto:mark.blankenship@vistait.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:ARSLIST@LISTSERV.QMXS.COM]On Behalf Of Parrish, Scott
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 12:02 PM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.QMXS.COM
Subject: Re: Overtime: Friday


**

My read into this functionality is that Remedy is forcing you to use the
"checkbox GUI thing" the way it is intended. Frankly, using a checkbox to
force a user to a single selection among a group of selections is poor
design. (I understand that you already know this.) While the Radio vs.
Checkbox thing may be a GUI thing, it does go beyond that. It is a usability
issue. Users in the GUI world know that if they have a radio button with
three selections, they may choose only one. The same user also knows that if
there are three checkboxes they may choose to select none, one, two or all
three. I really do not see any other way Remedy could have implemented the
checkboxes, except to allow developers to use them in a manner in which they
weren't intended. The same way we USED to be forced to use radio buttons to
mimic checkbox functionality.

That being said, I would have liked to have been able to put five selections
in the attributes for the checkbox field and allowed the user to select any
permutation of all five. Only thing is, I don't know how the ARS system
could have implemented that type of functionality. But, maybe I'm just not
thinking out of the box enough.

Ok, off of my soapbox.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: Black, Matt [mailto:matt.black@verizon.com]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 11:38 AM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.QMXS.COM
Subject: Re: Overtime: Friday


**

Scott,
Your right about this "being as designed".


And I will add that I think Remedy missed the boat on this.
What about the condition where you want the user to select 1 of the
N options. If you want to use a checkbox "GUI" to do it then you have to
create N selection fields, all set to use "checkbox" GUI, and then create
workflow that makes sure the other 4 fields are "$ NULL$" when any of the
five are selected. If one selection field could display all values with a
checkbox for each, then this "extra stuff" would not be needed.
True, if you want the user to pick more than one option, then there
still would need to be multiple selection fields, but that is the same for
the "Radio Button" GUI too.

I understand that one selection field = one selection value at a
time. That is fine. However the "Checkbox" Vs. "Radio Button" is a GUI thing
and not a "Data" thing. By restricting the GUI Checkbox to only show the
"first value" Remedy took something that might have been pretty to some
and made it more of a pain. (If I want separate objects for each "checkbox",
I could do that with buttons. (See the v4.5 sample app.)


--
Carey Matthew Black

Solution = People + Process + Tools
Fast, Accurate, Cheap.... Pick two.

-----Original Message-----
From: Parrish, Scott [mailto:Scott.Parish@BELLSOUTH.COM]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:14 AM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.QMXS.COM
Subject: Re: Overtime: Friday


**

John,
No. The single checkbox is not a bug. In GUI design, checkboxes are either
"On" or "Off". In a group of selections, check boxes allow for multiple
choices among a group of choices while radio buttons are supposed to allow a
single choice among a group. Because ARS will not allow you to make multiple
selections in a radio/drop down/checkbox list, you must create individual
fields for each checkbox. It is documented in the basic guide that even if
you place multiple choices in the selection field, if it is a checkbox, only
the first will show up.

Hope this helps.

Scott
-----Original Message-----
From: Reiser, John J [mailto:john.j.reiser@lmco.com]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:33 AM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.QMXS.COM
Subject: Re: Overtime: Friday


**

Dan, The Executive Forum in Philadelphia announced RUG 2003 will be in
April/May in San Francisco.

checkboxES? I've only been able to get one box to show up per field.
Is this a bug? I might as well use single radio buttons.

John J. Reiser
Software Development Analyst
Remedy Administrator
voice: (856) 722-4743
fax: (856) 273-5149
Lockheed Martin
199 Borton Landing Rd.
MS 137-104
Moorestown, NJ 08057
Naval Electronics & Surveillance Systems - Surface Systems
The star that burns twice as bright burns half as long.
Pay close attention and be illuminated by its brilliance. - paraphrased by
me


-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Bloom, ARSList Founder and Administrator
[mailto:dan.bloom@SYMPATICO.CA]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 9:11 AM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.QMXS.COM
Subject: Overtime: Friday


**

If we have a RUG2003 and BMC has it's User Groups take part in it
we will then have a BUG in a RUG.



I am actually suprised that we haven't heard yet about when and where for
RUG 2003, but I'm sure the folks are busy.

And now I shall return to playing with Remedy 5.1 and trying to get check
boxes to show up.

.....dan
Dan Bloom
ARSList Founder and Administrator



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privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all
computers."



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privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination or other use
of, or taking of any action in reliance upon, this information by persons or
entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received
this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from all
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**

>I can only imagine it as a
>concatenation of values, which becomes
>detrimental to the performance of the
>application.

Here is how I would implement it. Checkboxes are a boolean field type that
are either *on* or *off*. They appear differently from a radio button (this
is important to the user, as you said). That's pretty much the only
difference, besides only allowing one check value.

The only thing that other gui-developers provide that Remedy doesn't is the
ability to group checkboxes. However, I think we have more freedom this
way. We can choose to have multiple checkboxes or only one. If we need to
store the user's choices, we can store in a hidden text field. We can use
filters to ensure that someone checks at least one.

Maybe even assign each of the checkboxes a bit that can be turned on and off
in your hidden text field. So you read your text field as 0110 or 1111
depending on how many boxes were checked or not checked.


---
Shannon B. Davis
Software Engineer - End User Applications
Boston Communications Group, Inc.
bcgi (781) 904-5328
sdavis@bcgi.net


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