#44759 - 03/28/01 02:30 PM
Re: Remedy vs. Visual Basic
[Re: brian_arnold]
|
Stealth Member
Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 190
|
Try me again and see if my e-mail 'bounces'
PS If you can't take the heat, don't start a fire.
Art Milbuta
amilbuta@net2phone.com
973-412-3622
-----Original Message-----
From: Shannon Davis [mailto:sdavis@BCGI.NET]
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 10:17 AM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM
Subject: Re: Remedy vs. Visual Basic
**
I don't want to start an onlist flamewar, because this is certainly not
Remedy-related. I was going to take this offline - but wtf - I am also
offended. I just posted my opinions on a product - you have just insulted
my job performance. Besides, Art's mail just bounced - think he was
worried that
I might stand up for myself and removed his account before he could receive
my response?
Art seems to have missed the majority of my post where I defended Remedy as
a tool that serves its purpose very well, that I'm grateful to its
existence, and where I pointed out the existence of Modify All.
Boston Communications Group is very happy to have me, since I was the only
candidate in their three month search to have any Remedy Admin experience at
all, let alone the year of admin/development/troubleshooting that I do have.
I know that I'm not the consummate expert on the product - that's why I
joined this list - to learn more so that I can make our Remedy product work
even better.
I feel very sad to find that some members of this list can't have a
discussion on the pros and cons of Remedy without throwing punches at other
members.
-Shannon-
---
Shannon B. Davis
Remedy Systems Administrator
Boston Communications Group, Inc.
ph:(781) 904-5328
sdavis@bcgi.net
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Art Milbuta [mailto:amilbuta@NET2PHONE.COM]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 9:00 AM
> To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM
> Subject: Re: Remedy vs. Visual Basic
>
>
> **
>
> BRAVO ANN! I wonder if Boston Communications is aware that
> Shannon doesn't
> know very much about remedy?
>
> Art
>
________________
_____________
You may also control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE, at
www.ARSLIST.org
_____________________________
|
|
Top
|
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|
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#44760 - 03/28/01 03:37 PM
Re: Remedy vs. Visual Basic
[Re: brian_arnold]
|
journeyman
Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 53
|
Certainly, and I agree with the numbers idea. I just wanted to add what I
believe what those numbers will probably really show.
And now, as Patrick Zandi as asked, I will cease and desist from this
interesting but probably not so appropriate discussion on the ARS List.
Terrence J Hensley
Uni-Data Remedy Consultant
Check the possibilities:
http://www.sixfigureincome.com/?1239599
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM]On Behalf Of Ravi Bommareddy
> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 12:55
> To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM
> Subject: Re: Remedy vs. Visual Basic
>
>
> **
>
> Terrence,
> "Remedy came to be with a niche in mind"
> I just wanna refresh the topic agian, the discussion is not Remedy's niche
> market, we're talking about Remedy vs. VB and the question is:
> does Remedy has
> full strength to be a player in the traditional c.s. programming
> tools arena?
>
> I totally agree with your statement about Remedy's dominence in
> it's Niche.
> I hope you can see the meaning of my numbers now!
>
> Regards...
> Ravi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Terrence J Hensley @LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM>
> on 03/28/2001
> 01:37:13 PM
>
> Please respond to "Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)"
>
>
> Sent by: "Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)"
>
>
>
> To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM
> cc:
> Subject: Re: Remedy vs. Visual Basic
>
>
> **
>
> I don't have any numbers to add, but I think you have struck upon a point
> without sayig. Remedy came to be with a niche in mind, and that was the
> services industry. As a result Remedy has proven to be very strong in that
> niche. Historically, if I am not mistaken, those who leave their niche
> usually find it a long road to haul to broaden their horizons. That is not
> to say that Remedy can't or shouldn't.
>
> A case in point from the archives,
>
> A Commodore computer was a game machine only - not for me - I used it like
> my current respectable system and seldomly used it for games. In
> fact I used
> it in a small business for a few years.
>
> Terrence J Hensley
> Uni-Data Remedy Consultant
>
> Check the possibilities:
> http://www.sixfigureincome.com/?1239599
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> > [mailto:ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM]On Behalf Of Ravi Bommareddy
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 10:40
> > To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM
> > Subject: Re: Remedy vs. Visual Basic
> >
> >
> > **
> >
> > One of my Analytical Chemistry lesson tells me that the some
> > facts are derived
> > from" Sampling"
> > So Let's give scintific sampling twist to this topic.
> >
> > 1. I believe 90% computing people doesn't know Remedy existence
>
> > call your
> > non-remedy developers and ask them what remedy do)
> > 2. About 99 % computing is done with non-remedy tools ( see the
> > combined revenue
> > figures for all software tools companies, like Microsoft's
> > SYBASE, SAP, SUN,
> > etc)
> > 3. Remedy's usage other than service industry( HD, AM, CM, CRM)
> > is almost none.
> > 4. Market cap for all software tools companies cross trillion
> dollars, but
> > remedy's is ~ 300 mill
> >
> > Help me out to give more #s, so we can get a conclusion
> >
> > Ravi :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Rocky Rockwell @LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM> on
> > 03/28/2001 11:14:53 AM
> >
> > Please respond to "Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)"
> >
> >
> > Sent by: "Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)"
> >
> >
> >
> > To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM
> > cc:
> > Subject: Re: Remedy vs. Visual Basic
> >
> >
> > I agree with most of what you say, however I prefer the word
> designer. The
> > reason I say designer is that we are limited to stay within 4
> > items (Active
> > Links, Filters, Escalation's and Menus). Yes we can do more
> > outside Remedy, but
> > we still have to stay within the 4 items by designing how the 4
> > items/modules
> > work.
> >
> > I have noticed that most developers (those with other language
> > skills i.e.: C,
> > C++ and even perl) have a very hard time understanding Remedy and
> > working within
> > the 4 items/modules. Yet and good Remedy designer (like some of
> > the people on
> > this this list) can write an application that rivals any C program.
> >
> >
> > rocky
> >
> > Ann Zbylut wrote:
> >
> > **
> >
> > I'm sorry, but I must take offense at your comment that you wouldn't
> > consider yourself a developer based on your Remedy development
> experience.
> >
> > In my mind, a developer is someone who can create a product that matches
> > the needs of the end user of that product, no matter what
> 'language' it's
> > written in. And I know plenty of 'developers' that can't seem
> accomplish
> > that (no matter what language).
> >
> > Remedy developers, in my experience, seem carry more of a load than the
> > typical programmer. There tends to be more customer contact
> and more of a
> > need for written, verbal, and people skills. Those, for many
> people, are
> > more difficult to master than programming skills.
> >
> > And yes, I have experience in other languages, including VB. My choice?
> > Remedy. Where else can you develop an enterprise-wide product
> in the same
> > century as when the!
> > requirements are delivered. Those of us without
> > patience will choose Remedy...
> >
> > I apologize for the rant, but I rarely feel this passionate about
> > a subject
> > and had to get this one off my chest...
> >
> >
> > Humbly,
> >
> > Ann Zbylut
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:12:38 -0500, Shannon Davis
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > **
> >
> > Ravi wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes, in End user terms we can this, "Remedy is also a
> > development tool"
> >
> >
> > I agree with you here. And many people would have difficulty
> > developing in
> > Remedy, even though it seems really easy to us.
> >
> >
> >
> > But if you look in depth about all this programming and
> > Database concepts, then
> > you will see the difference.
> >
> >
> > I definitely agree with you here. I have been working with C for
> > years and
> > am now learning C++, and I don't think Remedy is a comparable
> development
> > environment at all. It's not nearly as open-ended. But it
> does serve its
> > purpose and I wouldn't have a job without it.
> >
> > I'm doing Remedy now in the interim until I am qualified for a real
> > development position. I certainly wouldn't call myself a
> developer based
> >
> >
> > !
> >
> > on
> >
> >
> > my Remedy development.
> >
> >
> >
> > strict standards and rules. Where as in Remedy, you develop
> > your db along with
> > your app. To use a table in remedy you have to create it
> > through remedy. And you
> > don't know what's going on in db when you create a table.
> >
> >
> > It's really hard to explain to anyone with regular database
> > experience that
> > in Remedy, the table and the form are the same thing...that if
> I delete a
> > field from the form, it deletes all that data from the table.
> >
> >
> >
> > Remedy can update one record at a time. It's hard to
> > retrieve, update or insert
> > 20 child records on a single button click or event. Go and
> >
> >
> > What about 'Modify All' in the User Tool?
> >
> > ---
> > Shannon B. Davis
> > Remedy Systems Administrator
> > Boston Communications Group, Inc.
> > ph:(781) 904-!
> > 5328
> > sdavis@bcgi.net
> >
> > ______
> > _________
> >
> >
> > ______________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > You may also control your subscription options, including
> UNSUBSCRIBE, at
> >
> >
> > www.ARSLIST.org
> >
> > ______
> > _______________________
> >
> >
> > You may also control your subscription options, including
> UNSUBSCRIBE, at
> > www.ARSLIST.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> > Rocky
> >
> >
> > Rocky Rockwell
> >
> > Texas Instruments
> >
> > Plano, Texas
> >
> > Email: rockwell@ti.com
> >
> >
> > Phone: 972-927-9237
> >
> > ______
> > _______________________
> >
> >
> > You may also control your subscription options, including
> > UNSUBSCRIBE, at www.ARSLIST.org
> >
>
> ______
> _______________________
>
>
>
> You may also control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE, at
> www.ARSLIST.org
>
> ______
> _______________________
>
>
> You may also control your subscription options, including
> UNSUBSCRIBE, at www.ARSLIST.org
>
_____________________________
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
#44761 - 03/28/01 03:54 PM
Re: Remedy vs. Visual Basic
[Re: brian_arnold]
|
journeyman
Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 147
|
Am I going to have to put you two in 'time out'!!! That's my typical response
when my niece and nephew act this way to each other.
Don't make me pull this car over...
In all seriousness, we can all get along better than this. It seems like every
6-9 months we have one of these episodes where a few people get overwrought by
something someone else says. There's no need or place for insults and berating
others especially in a public forum.
Take a step back and ask yourself if this is really worth all the tension,
anger, and indignation. Obviously the answer is no.
Let's all- Developers, 'Designers', Admins, Remedy Folks, whatever- demonstrate
that we are 'professionals' with a sense of community first and foremost, and
put an end to this.
Cheers,
David C. Kirkpatrick
Sr. Systems Administrator, Remedy Developer, Designer, Remedy Guy, Jr. DBA,
Server Admin-type fella with a little bit of C++ experience on the side and a
darn good cook too!
The Regence Group
Portland, OR USA
503.225.6675 (phone)
dckirkp@regence.com
|--------+------------------------>
| | Art Milbuta |
| | | | PHONE.COM> |
| | |
| | 03/28/2001 |
| | 12:30 PM |
| | Please respond|
| | to "Action |
| | Request System|
| | discussion |
| | list(ARSList)"|
| | |
|--------+------------------------>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
| |
| To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM |
| cc: (bcc: David C Kirkpatrick/BCBSO/TBG) |
| Subject: Re: Remedy vs. Visual Basic |
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------|
**
Try me again and see if my e-mail 'bounces'
PS If you can't take the heat, don't start a fire.
Art Milbuta
amilbuta@net2phone.com
973-412-3622
-----Original Message-----
From: Shannon Davis [mailto:sdavis@BCGI.NET]
Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 10:17 AM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM
Subject: Re: Remedy vs. Visual Basic
**
I don't want to start an onlist flamewar, because this is certainly not
Remedy-related. I was going to take this offline - but wtf - I am also
offended. I just posted my opinions on a product - you have just insulted
my job performance. Besides, Art's mail just bounced - think he was
worried that
I might stand up for myself and removed his account before he could receive
my response?
Art seems to have missed the majority of my post where I defended Remedy as
a tool that serves its purpose very well, that I'm grateful to its
existence, and where I pointed out the existence of Modify All.
Boston Communications Group is very happy to have me, since I was the only
candidate in their three month search to have any Remedy Admin experience at
all, let alone the year of admin/development/troubleshooting that I do have.
I know that I'm not the consummate expert on the product - that's why I
joined this list - to learn more so that I can make our Remedy product work
even better.
I feel very sad to find that some members of this list can't have a
discussion on the pros and cons of Remedy without throwing punches at other
members.
-Shannon-
---
Shannon B. Davis
Remedy Systems Administrator
Boston Communications Group, Inc.
ph:(781) 904-5328
sdavis@bcgi.net
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Art Milbuta [mailto:amilbuta@NET2PHONE.COM]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 9:00 AM
> To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM
> Subject: Re: Remedy vs. Visual Basic
>
>
> **
>
> BRAVO ANN! I wonder if Boston Communications is aware that
> Shannon doesn't
> know very much about remedy?
>
> Art
>
________________
_____________
You may also control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE, at
www.ARSLIST.org
_____________________________
You may also control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE, at
www.ARSLIST.org
_____________________________
|
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
|
#44762 - 03/28/01 03:37 PM
Re: Remedy vs. Visual Basic
[Re: brian_arnold]
|
journeyman
Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 53
|
**
Certainly, and I agree with the numbers idea. I just wanted to add what I
believe what those numbers will probably really show.
And now, as Patrick Zandi as asked, I will cease and desist from this
interesting but probably not so appropriate discussion on the ARS List.
Terrence J Hensley
Uni-Data Remedy Consultant
Check the possibilities:
http://www.sixfigureincome.com/?1239599
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM]On Behalf Of Ravi Bommareddy
> Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 12:55
> To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM
> Subject: Re: Remedy vs. Visual Basic
>
>
> **
>
> Terrence,
> "Remedy came to be with a niche in mind"
> I just wanna refresh the topic agian, the discussion is not Remedy's niche
> market, we're talking about Remedy vs. VB and the question is:
> does Remedy has
> full strength to be a player in the traditional c.s. programming
> tools arena?
>
> I totally agree with your statement about Remedy's dominence in
> it's Niche.
> I hope you can see the meaning of my numbers now!
>
> Regards...
> Ravi
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Terrence J Hensley @LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM>
> on 03/28/2001
> 01:37:13 PM
>
> Please respond to "Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)"
>
>
> Sent by: "Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)"
>
>
>
> To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM
> cc:
> Subject: Re: Remedy vs. Visual Basic
>
>
> **
>
> I don't have any numbers to add, but I think you have struck upon a point
> without sayig. Remedy came to be with a niche in mind, and that was the
> services industry. As a result Remedy has proven to be very strong in that
> niche. Historically, if I am not mistaken, those who leave their niche
> usually find it a long road to haul to broaden their horizons. That is not
> to say that Remedy can't or shouldn't.
>
> A case in point from the archives,
>
> A Commodore computer was a game machine only - not for me - I used it like
> my current respectable system and seldomly used it for games. In
> fact I used
> it in a small business for a few years.
>
> Terrence J Hensley
> Uni-Data Remedy Consultant
>
> Check the possibilities:
> http://www.sixfigureincome.com/?1239599
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> > [mailto:ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM]On Behalf Of Ravi Bommareddy
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2001 10:40
> > To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM
> > Subject: Re: Remedy vs. Visual Basic
> >
> >
> > **
> >
> > One of my Analytical Chemistry lesson tells me that the some
> > facts are derived
> > from" Sampling"
> > So Let's give scintific sampling twist to this topic.
> >
> > 1. I believe 90% computing people doesn't know Remedy existence
>
> > call your
> > non-remedy developers and ask them what remedy do)
> > 2. About 99 % computing is done with non-remedy tools ( see the
> > combined revenue
> > figures for all software tools companies, like Microsoft's
> > SYBASE, SAP, SUN,
> > etc)
> > 3. Remedy's usage other than service industry( HD, AM, CM, CRM)
> > is almost none.
> > 4. Market cap for all software tools companies cross trillion
> dollars, but
> > remedy's is ~ 300 mill
> >
> > Help me out to give more #s, so we can get a conclusion
> >
> > Ravi :)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Rocky Rockwell @LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM> on
> > 03/28/2001 11:14:53 AM
> >
> > Please respond to "Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)"
> >
> >
> > Sent by: "Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)"
> >
> >
> >
> > To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM
> > cc:
> > Subject: Re: Remedy vs. Visual Basic
> >
> >
> > I agree with most of what you say, however I prefer the word
> designer. The
> > reason I say designer is that we are limited to stay within 4
> > items (Active
> > Links, Filters, Escalation's and Menus). Yes we can do more
> > outside Remedy, but
> > we still have to stay within the 4 items by designing how the 4
> > items/modules
> > work.
> >
> > I have noticed that most developers (those with other language
> > skills i.e.: C,
> > C++ and even perl) have a very hard time understanding Remedy and
> > working within
> > the 4 items/modules. Yet and good Remedy designer (like some of
> > the people on
> > this this list) can write an application that rivals any C program.
> >
> >
> > rocky
> >
> > Ann Zbylut wrote:
> >
> > **
> >
> > I'm sorry, but I must take offense at your comment that you wouldn't
> > consider yourself a developer based on your Remedy development
> experience.
> >
> > In my mind, a developer is someone who can create a product that matches
> > the needs of the end user of that product, no matter what
> 'language' it's
> > written in. And I know plenty of 'developers' that can't seem
> accomplish
> > that (no matter what language).
> >
> > Remedy developers, in my experience, seem carry more of a load than the
> > typical programmer. There tends to be more customer contact
> and more of a
> > need for written, verbal, and people skills. Those, for many
> people, are
> > more difficult to master than programming skills.
> >
> > And yes, I have experience in other languages, including VB. My choice?
> > Remedy. Where else can you develop an enterprise-wide product
> in the same
> > century as when the!
> > requirements are delivered. Those of us without
> > patience will choose Remedy...
> >
> > I apologize for the rant, but I rarely feel this passionate about
> > a subject
> > and had to get this one off my chest...
> >
> >
> > Humbly,
> >
> > Ann Zbylut
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:12:38 -0500, Shannon Davis
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > **
> >
> > Ravi wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes, in End user terms we can this, "Remedy is also a
> > development tool"
> >
> >
> > I agree with you here. And many people would have difficulty
> > developing in
> > Remedy, even though it seems really easy to us.
> >
> >
> >
> > But if you look in depth about all this programming and
> > Database concepts, then
> > you will see the difference.
> >
> >
> > I definitely agree with you here. I have been working with C for
> > years and
> > am now learning C++, and I don't think Remedy is a comparable
> development
> > environment at all. It's not nearly as open-ended. But it
> does serve its
> > purpose and I wouldn't have a job without it.
> >
> > I'm doing Remedy now in the interim until I am qualified for a real
> > development position. I certainly wouldn't call myself a
> developer based
> >
> >
> > !
> >
> > on
> >
> >
> > my Remedy development.
> >
> >
> >
> > strict standards and rules. Where as in Remedy, you develop
> > your db along with
> > your app. To use a table in remedy you have to create it
> > through remedy. And you
> > don't know what's going on in db when you create a table.
> >
> >
> > It's really hard to explain to anyone with regular database
> > experience that
> > in Remedy, the table and the form are the same thing...that if
> I delete a
> > field from the form, it deletes all that data from the table.
> >
> >
> >
> > Remedy can update one record at a time. It's hard to
> > retrieve, update or insert
> > 20 child records on a single button click or event. Go and
> >
> >
> > What about 'Modify All' in the User Tool?
> >
> > ---
> > Shannon B. Davis
> > Remedy Systems Administrator
> > Boston Communications Group, Inc.
> > ph:(781) 904-!
> > 5328
> > sdavis@bcgi.net
> >
> > ______
> > _________
> >
> >
> > ______________
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > You may also control your subscription options, including
> UNSUBSCRIBE, at
> >
> >
> > www.ARSLIST.org
> >
> > ______
> > _______________________
> >
> >
> > You may also control your subscription options, including
> UNSUBSCRIBE, at
> > www.ARSLIST.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> > Rocky
> >
> >
> > Rocky Rockwell
> >
> > Texas Instruments
> >
> > Plano, Texas
> >
> > Email: rockwell@ti.com
> >
> >
> > Phone: 972-927-9237
> >
> > ______
> > _______________________
> >
> >
> > You may also control your subscription options, including
> > UNSUBSCRIBE, at www.ARSLIST.org
> >
>
> ______
> _______________________
>
>
>
> You may also control your subscription options, including UNSUBSCRIBE, at
> www.ARSLIST.org
>
> ______
> _______________________
>
>
> You may also control your subscription options, including
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