My client has an unusual request: How long do I estimate that it would take
their 'IT Guy' to become qualified to support our solution in an
admin/developer role by himself?

His background: young, less than 1 year of IT experience, working on
computer science degree, very bright, quick learner, and has NEVER seen
Remedy. No programming experience of any type. On a scale of 1-10, I would
estimate a 6-7.

Our background: Remedy 4.0.3, NT 4.0, SQL 7, fully customized solution
developed by 5 different developers at various times over the last 14 months
(one RAC). Solution includes API's to push/pull to AS/400 and Lotus Notes.
Solution supports about a hundred users with 55 forms, 184 AL's, 129
filters, 21 escalations, etc., making full use of join forms, display
windows, etc.

We also use Migrator and application bustime throughout the solution, and
have 3 servers: one dev, one test, one production, and will soon support
several hundred users remotely.

As the client has yet to provide a DBA, 'IT guy' would also need to learn
'some' SQL.

Remember the scene in 'Miracle on 34th Street' where the attorney has the
postal workers dump thousands of letters onto the judge's booth, proving
that the federal government believed Kris Kringle to be Santa?

Please reply to this with your estimates of how long it will take the 'IT
Guy' to competently execute his duties (which will include daily admin. and
further development).

I'd like to print your responses, and present them to the VP.

Thanks, and if you're thinking that we've done a poor job of describing the
complexities of 'all things Remedy' - nothing could be further from the
truth! This is my 'last shot'

Rick

How many MONTHS does this IT got to learn Remedy?

I have been using Remedy for 2+ years and am still learning everyday.

I personally think there NUTS if they are going to take a "junior" person
and put that type of responsibility on him. Especially since he does not
have Remedy experience and has less then 1 year IT experience. They are
asking for TROUBLE.

I believe your billable rate goes up if you have to clean up some elses mess
/ screw up.

Just my 2 cents.


-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Phillips [mailto:netfirst@EARTHLINK.NET]
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 2:26 PM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM
Subject: How long to ramp up?


**

My client has an unusual request: How long do I estimate that it would take
their 'IT Guy' to become qualified to support our solution in an
admin/developer role by himself?

His background: young, less than 1 year of IT experience, working on
computer science degree, very bright, quick learner, and has NEVER seen
Remedy. No programming experience of any type. On a scale of 1-10, I would
estimate a 6-7.

Our background: Remedy 4.0.3, NT 4.0, SQL 7, fully customized solution
developed by 5 different developers at various times over the last 14 months
(one RAC). Solution includes API's to push/pull to AS/400 and Lotus Notes.
Solution supports about a hundred users with 55 forms, 184 AL's, 129
filters, 21 escalations, etc., making full use of join forms, display
windows, etc.

We also use Migrator and application bustime throughout the solution, and
have 3 servers: one dev, one test, one production, and will soon support
several hundred users remotely.

As the client has yet to provide a DBA, 'IT guy' would also need to learn
'some' SQL.

Remember the scene in 'Miracle on 34th Street' where the attorney has the
postal workers dump thousands of letters onto the judge's booth, proving
that the federal government believed Kris Kringle to be Santa?

Please reply to this with your estimates of how long it will take the 'IT
Guy' to competently execute his duties (which will include daily admin. and
further development).

I'd like to print your responses, and present them to the VP.

Thanks, and if you're thinking that we've done a poor job of describing the
complexities of 'all things Remedy' - nothing could be further from the
truth! This is my 'last shot'

Rick

I'd say 6 weeks.

OOP concepts : 1 week
Extensive SQL practice : 2 Weeks
Knowing ARS Objects(ALs/FLs/macros, ..etc) : 1 weeks
Working/Updating/Creating ARS objetcs : 2 weeks

Thanks,
ravi

I'm inclined to agree. I've been around Remedy since it first started some
ten years back, and I'm still learning. The point I want to make is that the
technicalities of administering Remedy, NT and anything else are all
documented and anyone with a brain can do the routine. Things like dealing
with humans - irate or otherwise, and looking at other people's Remedy code
and figuring out what it's supposed to do, and why it doesn't do it, takes
not only a lot of experience, but also the patience to be able to unravel
some tortuous logic and make sense of it. IMHO, expecting a person with one
years experience to maintain an existing system is like asking a student
who's just done a basic Greek language course to translate Xenophon.

Not fair on either him or his employer

John

-----Original Message-----
From: Tyrone Dee [mailto:tyrone.dee@SOLECT.COM]
Sent: 21, December Thursday, 2000 08:41
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM
Subject: Re: How long to ramp up?


**

How many MONTHS does this IT got to learn Remedy?

I have been using Remedy for 2+ years and am still learning everyday.

I personally think there NUTS if they are going to take a "junior" person
and put that type of responsibility on him. Especially since he does not
have Remedy experience and has less then 1 year IT experience. They are
asking for TROUBLE.

I believe your billable rate goes up if you have to clean up some elses mess
/ screw up.

Just my 2 cents.


-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Phillips [mailto:netfirst@EARTHLINK.NET]
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 2:26 PM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM
Subject: How long to ramp up?


**

My client has an unusual request: How long do I estimate that it would take
their 'IT Guy' to become qualified to support our solution in an
admin/developer role by himself?

His background: young, less than 1 year of IT experience, working on
computer science degree, very bright, quick learner, and has NEVER seen
Remedy. No programming experience of any type. On a scale of 1-10, I would
estimate a 6-7.

Our background: Remedy 4.0.3, NT 4.0, SQL 7, fully customized solution
developed by 5 different developers at various times over the last 14 months
(one RAC). Solution includes API's to push/pull to AS/400 and Lotus Notes.
Solution supports about a hundred users with 55 forms, 184 AL's, 129
filters, 21 escalations, etc., making full use of join forms, display
windows, etc.

We also use Migrator and application bustime throughout the solution, and
have 3 servers: one dev, one test, one production, and will soon support
several hundred users remotely.

As the client has yet to provide a DBA, 'IT guy' would also need to learn
'some' SQL.

Remember the scene in 'Miracle on 34th Street' where the attorney has the
postal workers dump thousands of letters onto the judge's booth, proving
that the federal government believed Kris Kringle to be Santa?

Please reply to this with your estimates of how long it will take the 'IT
Guy' to competently execute his duties (which will include daily admin. and
further development).

I'd like to print your responses, and present them to the VP.

Thanks, and if you're thinking that we've done a poor job of describing the
complexities of 'all things Remedy' - nothing could be further from the
truth! This is my 'last shot'

Rick

Rick,
We have 2 servers development and production(soon to have 3) and about 150
users. Everything we do is customized. There are two Remedy admins with
combined working experience of 5+ yrs. We do not integrate Remedy with any
other apps. Neither one of us has any real SQL Server experience. One of us
can get around in the DB using SQL. We also have someone else who has some
DBA experience who we can use from time to time. I would say it would take
him at least a year to get to a point where he might be comfortable with
just Remedy. He would need to take the Admin and Advanced Topics courses at
a minimum. He should have Building Remedy Apps as well.
I do not think he will be able to handle the workload alone. It takes both
of us to handle 150 users. We are thinking about taking a junior person to
train as a third admin. I strongly feel that this company is setting its
self up for failure. Good luck.

Roger A. Nall
Project Manager
Remedy Administrator
Covista Communication
888-890-7600x7446
rnall@covistacom.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Phillips [mailto:netfirst@EARTHLINK.NET]
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 2:26 PM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM
Subject: How long to ramp up?


**

My client has an unusual request: How long do I estimate that it would take
their 'IT Guy' to become qualified to support our solution in an
admin/developer role by himself?

His background: young, less than 1 year of IT experience, working on
computer science degree, very bright, quick learner, and has NEVER seen
Remedy. No programming experience of any type. On a scale of 1-10, I would
estimate a 6-7.

Our background: Remedy 4.0.3, NT 4.0, SQL 7, fully customized solution
developed by 5 different developers at various times over the last 14 months
(one RAC). Solution includes API's to push/pull to AS/400 and Lotus Notes.
Solution supports about a hundred users with 55 forms, 184 AL's, 129
filters, 21 escalations, etc., making full use of join forms, display
windows, etc.

We also use Migrator and application bustime throughout the solution, and
have 3 servers: one dev, one test, one production, and will soon support
several hundred users remotely.

As the client has yet to provide a DBA, 'IT guy' would also need to learn
'some' SQL.

Remember the scene in 'Miracle on 34th Street' where the attorney has the
postal workers dump thousands of letters onto the judge's booth, proving
that the federal government believed Kris Kringle to be Santa?

Please reply to this with your estimates of how long it will take the 'IT
Guy' to competently execute his duties (which will include daily admin. and
further development).

I'd like to print your responses, and present them to the VP.

Thanks, and if you're thinking that we've done a poor job of describing the
complexities of 'all things Remedy' - nothing could be further from the
truth! This is my 'last shot'

Rick

My $0.02...

This is a disaster waiting to happen, but...

If his management is willing to send the admin to some classes it may not be
a complete disaster.

He needs the following Remedy classes: Remedy User, Remedy Admin, Advanced
topics.

He needs the following MS classes: NT Server, SQL Admin, SQL DB design

All those classes can be completed over a six months and still allow the guy
to do his regular job.

He also needs a thoroughly documented system. I assume that you are
providing some documentation of the system as part of your contract. Have
them purchase Master Documenter or an equivalent and use that as part of
your system doc. I found it invaluable when I began supporting our system.
In the three years I have been supporting our system, most of my changes
have been in enhancements and some new applications. The few bugs I have
had to pull out were very hard to track until I got my management to get
Master Documenter.

The one thing this guy really needs is the one thing management cannot buy
and that is time for him to learn Remedy development and admin slowly. This
will not show up until they have some kind of major failure and the admin
gets lost trying to fix everything at once. With luck it won't show up at
all.

I am trying to train a Remedy Admin/Developer in the 2-3 hours at a stretch
we can scrape together while we are still doing our regular jobs. I am
training him by having him develop an small application that works in
concert with our existing HD. He is doing the coding as much as possible
and I am checking his work. I am not a great teacher because I have to
continually fight the urge to tell him he is doing it all wrong. When he
does find the bugs in his code he learns a lot more than he would if I
jumped in to DIRTFT. If you can train your admin this way, I think that
would go a long way towards getting him ready.

The guy needs time to get comfortable supporting the app. If he really
wants to do the support he has a chance. I think he could be ready in six
months to a year depending on how much stick time he can get in actually
playing with Remedy code. By that time he should be doing an adquate job on
day to day small changes and bug fixing. If he feels lost some of the time
he's doing all right. If he feels lost all the time, management needs to
re-think their strategy.





-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Phillips [mailto:netfirst@EARTHLINK.NET]
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 13:26
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM
Subject: How long to ramp up?


**

My client has an unusual request: How long do I estimate that it would take
their 'IT Guy' to become qualified to support our solution in an
admin/developer role by himself?

His background: young, less than 1 year of IT experience, working on
computer science degree, very bright, quick learner, and has NEVER seen
Remedy. No programming experience of any type. On a scale of 1-10, I would
estimate a 6-7.

Our background: Remedy 4.0.3, NT 4.0, SQL 7, fully customized solution
developed by 5 different developers at various times over the last 14 months
(one RAC). Solution includes API's to push/pull to AS/400 and Lotus Notes.
Solution supports about a hundred users with 55 forms, 184 AL's, 129
filters, 21 escalations, etc., making full use of join forms, display
windows, etc.

We also use Migrator and application bustime throughout the solution, and
have 3 servers: one dev, one test, one production, and will soon support
several hundred users remotely.

As the client has yet to provide a DBA, 'IT guy' would also need to learn
'some' SQL.

Remember the scene in 'Miracle on 34th Street' where the attorney has the
postal workers dump thousands of letters onto the judge's booth, proving
that the federal government believed Kris Kringle to be Santa?

Please reply to this with your estimates of how long it will take the 'IT
Guy' to competently execute his duties (which will include daily admin. and
further development).

I'd like to print your responses, and present them to the VP.

Thanks, and if you're thinking that we've done a poor job of describing the
complexities of 'all things Remedy' - nothing could be further from the
truth! This is my 'last shot'

Rick

I support 125 users with 2 servers, no DBA, no Webmaster, no programming
experience, No HELP, I am a student studying for a CS degree. The servers
OS, database, Remedy, Knowledgebase w/ integration into Remedy, Web server,
new development EVERYTHING is done by me and me alone. I have only the basic
administration class from Remedy and because of this I am a 45 year old man
in a 22 year old body.

My 2 cents, hell here's a whole dollar;
Don't do that to "IT Guy" Make sure he has been trained. I had to build a
new production server, Migrate old data and Defs, New database everything,
W/ no training and I had 0 ZERO Experience. I had no problems but I spent my
life at the office, I still live at the office trying to keep up with
everything. Not only do I do what I just described but I also am a operator
of a Mainframe and Helpdesk support technician fixing level one and level
two trouble calls, and service request.

The worst part if it all, I make a Helpdesk technicians wage:( haha,

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM]On Behalf Of Roger Nall
Sent: 20 December 2000 12:07
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM
Subject: Re: How long to ramp up?


**

Rick,
We have 2 servers development and production(soon to have 3) and about 150
users. Everything we do is customized. There are two Remedy admins with
combined working experience of 5+ yrs. We do not integrate Remedy with any
other apps. Neither one of us has any real SQL Server experience. One of us
can get around in the DB using SQL. We also have someone else who has some
DBA experience who we can use from time to time. I would say it would take
him at least a year to get to a point where he might be comfortable with
just Remedy. He would need to take the Admin and Advanced Topics courses at
a minimum. He should have Building Remedy Apps as well.
I do not think he will be able to handle the workload alone. It takes both
of us to handle 150 users. We are thinking about taking a junior person to
train as a third admin. I strongly feel that this company is setting its
self up for failure. Good luck.

Roger A. Nall
Project Manager
Remedy Administrator
Covista Communication
888-890-7600x7446
rnall@covistacom.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Phillips [mailto:netfirst@EARTHLINK.NET]
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 2:26 PM
To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM
Subject: How long to ramp up?


**

My client has an unusual request: How long do I estimate that it would take
their 'IT Guy' to become qualified to support our solution in an
admin/developer role by himself?

His background: young, less than 1 year of IT experience, working on
computer science degree, very bright, quick learner, and has NEVER seen
Remedy. No programming experience of any type. On a scale of 1-10, I would
estimate a 6-7.

Our background: Remedy 4.0.3, NT 4.0, SQL 7, fully customized solution
developed by 5 different developers at various times over the last 14 months
(one RAC). Solution includes API's to push/pull to AS/400 and Lotus Notes.
Solution supports about a hundred users with 55 forms, 184 AL's, 129
filters, 21 escalations, etc., making full use of join forms, display
windows, etc.

We also use Migrator and application bustime throughout the solution, and
have 3 servers: one dev, one test, one production, and will soon support
several hundred users remotely.

As the client has yet to provide a DBA, 'IT guy' would also need to learn
'some' SQL.

Remember the scene in 'Miracle on 34th Street' where the attorney has the
postal workers dump thousands of letters onto the judge's booth, proving
that the federal government believed Kris Kringle to be Santa?

Please reply to this with your estimates of how long it will take the 'IT
Guy' to competently execute his duties (which will include daily admin. and
further development).

I'd like to print your responses, and present them to the VP.

Thanks, and if you're thinking that we've done a poor job of describing the
complexities of 'all things Remedy' - nothing could be further from the
truth! This is my 'last shot'

Rick

You need help more than training. You seem like a sharp enough guy to handle it but there is only so much one person can do in one day.
-Ibrahim Akar
http://www.AllRemedy.com

>Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 16:29:52 -0800
>Reply-To: "Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)"
>From: Craig Benson
>Subject: Re: How long to ramp up?
>To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM
>
>**
>
>I support 125 users with 2 servers, no DBA, no Webmaster, no programming
>experience, No HELP, I am a student studying for a CS degree. The servers
>OS, database, Remedy, Knowledgebase w/ integration into Remedy, Web server,
>new development EVERYTHING is done by me and me alone. I have only the basic
>administration class from Remedy and because of this I am a 45 year old man
>in a 22 year old body.
>
>My 2 cents, hell here's a whole dollar;
>Don't do that to "IT Guy" Make sure he has been trained. I had to build a
>new production server, Migrate old data and Defs, New database everything,
>W/ no training and I had 0 ZERO Experience. I had no problems but I spent my
>life at the office, I still live at the office trying to keep up with
>everything. Not only do I do what I just described but I also am a operator
>of a Mainframe and Helpdesk support technician fixing level one and level
>two trouble calls, and service request.
>
>The worst part if it all, I make a Helpdesk technicians wage:( haha,
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
>[mailto:ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM]On Behalf Of Roger Nall
>Sent: 20 December 2000 12:07
>To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM
>Subject: Re: How long to ramp up?
>
>
>**
>
>Rick,
>We have 2 servers development and production(soon to have 3) and about 150
>users. Everything we do is customized. There are two Remedy admins with
>combined working experience of 5+ yrs. We do not integrate Remedy with any
>other apps. Neither one of us has any real SQL Server experience. One of us
>can get around in the DB using SQL. We also have someone else who has some
>DBA experience who we can use from time to time. I would say it would take
>him at least a year to get to a point where he might be comfortable with
>just Remedy. He would need to take the Admin and Advanced Topics courses at
>a minimum. He should have Building Remedy Apps as well.
>I do not think he will be able to handle the workload alone. It takes both
>of us to handle 150 users. We are thinking about taking a junior person to
>train as a third admin. I strongly feel that this company is setting its
>self up for failure. Good luck.
>
>Roger A. Nall
>Project Manager
>Remedy Administrator
>Covista Communication
>888-890-7600x7446
>rnall@covistacom.com
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Rick Phillips [mailto:netfirst@EARTHLINK.NET]
>Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 2:26 PM
>To: ARSLIST@LISTSERV.VISTAIT.COM
>Subject: How long to ramp up?
>
>
>**
>
>My client has an unusual request: How long do I estimate that it would take
>their 'IT Guy' to become qualified to support our solution in an
>admin/developer role by himself?
>
>His background: young, less than 1 year of IT experience, working on
>computer science degree, very bright, quick learner, and has NEVER seen
>Remedy. No programming experience of any type. On a scale of 1-10, I would
>estimate a 6-7.
>
>Our background: Remedy 4.0.3, NT 4.0, SQL 7, fully customized solution
>developed by 5 different developers at various times over the last 14 months
>(one RAC). Solution includes API's to push/pull to AS/400 and Lotus Notes.
>Solution supports about a hundred users with 55 forms, 184 AL's, 129
>filters, 21 escalations, etc., making full use of join forms, display
>windows, etc.
>
>We also use Migrator and application bustime throughout the solution, and
>have 3 servers: one dev, one test, one production, and will soon support
>several hundred users remotely.
>
>As the client has yet to provide a DBA, 'IT guy' would also need to learn
>'some' SQL.
>
>Remember the scene in 'Miracle on 34th Street' where the attorney has the
>postal workers dump thousands of letters onto the judge's booth, proving
>that the federal government believed Kris Kringle to be Santa?
>
>Please reply to this with your estimates of how long it will take the 'IT
>Guy' to competently execute his duties (which will include daily admin. and
>further development).
>
>I'd like to print your responses, and present them to the VP.
>
>Thanks, and if you're thinking that we've done a poor job of describing the
>complexities of 'all things Remedy' - nothing could be further from the
>truth! This is my 'last shot'
>
>Rick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

We in this refers to Lee Kelly and myself.

We managed to support our first Remedy system after assisting a VAR to
install it, then doing the user,admin & advanced topics course.

However, we also had the following advantages:

7 & 3 years IT experience working as help desk analysts and network
operators
Lee had previously support Inference's EHD product for the help desk, and
also knew some SQL.
A team of Oracle DBAs to support us
A network/infrasturcture team to support the server and network (at that
time we were on NT)
After we moved to Solaris 7 months later we had a team of Unix SAs as well.
We maintained a good relationship with the VAR and frequently called them
after they had left until we got the hang of things.

After 3 months we built our own system with only User & group schemas out of
the box. We just did change and asset management, but we had location,
people, product, company and several other supproting schemas. We also
moved to Solaris for this system.

I'd say it took us 6 months to become proficient, but we had very good
backup from SAs and DBAs. We were in at the deep end the day it went live,
and the VAR left. Immediately after the courses we were full of ideas, and
eager to replace the system with an in-house one!

Neil Anderson
Halifax plc (UK)


----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Phillips"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 7:26 PM
Subject: How long to ramp up?


> **
>
> My client has an unusual request: How long do I estimate that it would
take
> their 'IT Guy' to become qualified to support our solution in an
> admin/developer role by himself?
>
> His background: young, less than 1 year of IT experience, working on
> computer science degree, very bright, quick learner, and has NEVER seen
> Remedy. No programming experience of any type. On a scale of 1-10, I
would
> estimate a 6-7.
>
> Our background: Remedy 4.0.3, NT 4.0, SQL 7, fully customized solution
> developed by 5 different developers at various times over the last 14
months
> (one RAC). Solution includes API's to push/pull to AS/400 and Lotus
Notes.
> Solution supports about a hundred users with 55 forms, 184 AL's, 129
> filters, 21 escalations, etc., making full use of join forms, display
> windows, etc.
>
> We also use Migrator and application bustime throughout the solution, and
> have 3 servers: one dev, one test, one production, and will soon support
> several hundred users remotely.
>
> As the client has yet to provide a DBA, 'IT guy' would also need to learn
> 'some' SQL.
>
> Remember the scene in 'Miracle on 34th Street' where the attorney has the
> postal workers dump thousands of letters onto the judge's booth, proving
> that the federal government believed Kris Kringle to be Santa?
>
> Please reply to this with your estimates of how long it will take the 'IT
> Guy' to competently execute his duties (which will include daily admin.
and
> further development).
>
> I'd like to print your responses, and present them to the VP.
>
> Thanks, and if you're thinking that we've done a poor job of describing
the
> complexities of 'all things Remedy' - nothing could be further from the
> truth! This is my 'last shot'
>
> Rick
>
>
>

>

When I became the lead Remedy person at my company, I had about a year's
experience as a Remedy user on the help desk, and before that, 12 years'
experience as a programmer, including SQL. I had also put in about six
months as the backup to the then-lead Remedy person. He left, and it fell
to me. We had just done what amounted to a new release of our custom apps,
incorporating dso and some other new features. At that time, I also had an
experienced dba, and unix admins.

Even with all those advantages, I was sweating bullets. I put all
enhancement requests on indefinite hold, and concentrated on just keeping
the current system afloat (it turned out some of the new app features
weren't quite ready for prime time). My gut feeling was that I was going to
fail. At that time we had about 500 users and 100 forms. Fortunately my
gut feeling was wrong.

My opinion is that your IT Guy will have to be 99th percentile plus in terms
of ability, if your client hopes to make up for the lack of training and
experience with ability.

Also, 'some' SQL is not enough to be a dba!!!

Jim