**

You can always look at the bright side.. demand is up.



Needless to say, I can't blame you for being pissed. I would be too.



But I have to admit that it is nice to see a demand out there.



Scott

20060125This posting was submitted with HTML in it 20060125This posting was submitted with HTML in it

**

Timothy:

I agree with your comments. Legitimate companies employ folks who speak, read and write YOUR language no matter where they come from. I worked a stint with a call center and I had to speak to folks from outside of the U.S. These folks had NO problems (or mostly none) understanding myself and the customer (if needed) to get many problems resolved. It is my opinion that these folks are looking to make the fast dollar and then leave their employees high and dry.

We don't need them and we definately do not need to work for them.

James McKenzie
-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Timothy Button
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 2:35 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Annoying Recruiters


**
I want to clarify something else on this subject. During the dark days (Jan 2001 through August 2001) most people got no calls for months on end. People clamoring your your services is one of the best problems you can have. Somewhere, somebody who develops "Application X" is not getting called while we are, so while the lack of information and decorum are annoying, how would you feel when the phone never rang?

Also, and I am not just saying this to backtrack; little or none of this behavior comes from actual BMC Partners. The culprits are the fly-by-night contract firms that pop up and disappear quickly.

Timothy Button
Remedy Systems Consultant
tbutton@remedyconsultant.com






From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of McKenzie, James J C-E LCMC HQISEC/L3

Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:49 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Annoying Recruiters


**
Mike, Axton, et. al.:
I agree. I got a call from an Indian (person from the country of India) and I could not understand most of what he said and it took FOUR CALLS TO MY MOBILE PHONE before this individual got the idea that I was not interested in moving to Dallas Texas. I had stated that I would relocate on my Monster resume. This means a permenant relocation where the company picks up my costs (and I do not plan on driving a U-Haul with my car on a dolly behind it.) I also received the barrage from the Madison, WI job. Looks like it is going to be a long day if they call again....

James McKenzie


-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Mike McCourt
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 8:24 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: OT: Annoying Recruiters


All ... I know I can't be the only one that gets frustrated with this from
time to time, but I just needed to vent, so please excuse my rant.
I'm sure everyone that has a resume on Monster and even mentions the
word "Remedy" in their resume has probably had someone contact them about
these Remedy positions in Wisconsin, but enough is enough already.
I've currently been contacted close to a dozen times already by various
firms wanting to staff me into this position(s), and normally I would be
flattered by this, but when certain IT solution companies (we'll call them
Company X to project the rights of the ignorant) have every single
recruiter call you, it starts to border on telemarketing. Now .. I can
understand if a second recruiter for Company X accidentally contacts you,
but when 4 different recruiters all call you, they're really not recruiters
now are they ... they're more like college kids working through a
computerized call list trying to sell you something.
Now if what Company X has done so far isn't annoying enough, apparently
their recruiters are still struggling with the English language (and it is
their second language), since they don't understand phrases like "NO"
and "I'M NOT INTERESTED", so they go ahead and email you the same job
description that you've already seen on Monster and the ARS list.
Now I'm sure someone is going to read this and wonder why anyone is
complaining about people calling them, trying to give them work, and I'm
not complaining about all recruiters, so please don't take this the wrong
way, since most recruiters I deal with are very courteous professionals,
but there are a couple of firms out there (one based in India and on in the
UK that I've dealt with) that just don't understand the word NO ... and
after you turn them down for the 15th time and asked to be removed from
their calling database, I guess you do the only thing you can and blacklist
their email domain from your mail server and get yourself an air horn for
when they call you :)
OK ... I've gotten this off my chest now, so those that were patient enough
to read my email ... I thank you and hope you have a great weekend.
Mike

UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
20060125This posting was submitted with HTML in it 20060125This posting was submitted with HTML in it

20060125This posting was submitted with HTML in it

Tim ... I went through the same dark days (however I believe mine were from
Feb 2002 - Nov 2002), where the the only remedy projects I could find were
those that paid $40/hour and they wanted me to pick up my own travel!

If you re-read my original email, I actaully said normally I'd be
flattered, but these folks are just plain ignorant about it ... how many
times do I have to turn down the same job before they quit calling!!!

Since posting this message, I've had two more emails from them that came in
which I've bounced(thank you spamware).

I also understand that these aren't remedy partners, I have working
relationships with 4 current Remedy/BMC partners, and each and everyone has
always conducted themselves as professionals ... this is a "fly-by-night"
firm that's just looking to staff a project and they're desperate. I'm
guessing they aren't offering enough money to get anyone to go work in
Madison in the dead of winter, and before all is said and done, they'll
probably want to have most of the development work done off-shore.

Mike


On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:34:45 -0600, Timothy Button
wrote:

>I want to clarify something else on this subject. During the dark days (Jan
>2001 through August 2001) most people got no calls for months on end.
People
>clamoring your your services is one of the best problems you can have.
>Somewhere, somebody who develops "Application X" is not getting called
while
>we are, so while the lack of information and decorum are annoying, how
would
>you feel when the phone never rang?
>
>Also, and I am not just saying this to backtrack; little or none of this
>behavior comes from actual BMC Partners. The culprits are the fly-by-night
>contract firms that pop up and disappear quickly.
>
>Timothy Button
>Remedy Systems Consultant
>tbutton@remedyconsultant.com
>
>
>
>
>
>From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
>[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of McKenzie, James J C-E LCMC
>HQISEC/L3
>Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:49 AM
>To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
>Subject: Re: Annoying Recruiters
>
>
>**
>
>Mike, Axton, et. al.:
>
>I agree. I got a call from an Indian (person from the country of India)
and
>I could not understand most of what he said and it took FOUR CALLS TO MY
>MOBILE PHONE before this individual got the idea that I was not interested
>in moving to Dallas Texas. I had stated that I would relocate on my
Monster
>resume. This means a permenant relocation where the company picks up my
>costs (and I do not plan on driving a U-Haul with my car on a dolly behind
>it.) I also received the barrage from the Madison, WI job. Looks like it
>is going to be a long day if they call again....
>
>James McKenzie
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
>[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Mike McCourt
>Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 8:24 PM
>To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
>Subject: OT: Annoying Recruiters
>
>
>All ... I know I can't be the only one that gets frustrated with this from
>time to time, but I just needed to vent, so please excuse my rant.
>
>I'm sure everyone that has a resume on Monster and even mentions the
>word "Remedy" in their resume has probably had someone contact them about
>these Remedy positions in Wisconsin, but enough is enough already.
>
>I've currently been contacted close to a dozen times already by various
>firms wanting to staff me into this position(s), and normally I would be
>flattered by this, but when certain IT solution companies (we'll call them
>Company X to project the rights of the ignorant) have every single
>recruiter call you, it starts to border on telemarketing. Now ... I can
>understand if a second recruiter for Company X accidentally contacts you,
>but when 4 different recruiters all call you, they're really not recruiters
>now are they ... they're more like college kids working through a
>computerized call list trying to sell you something.
>
>Now if what Company X has done so far isn't annoying enough, apparently
>their recruiters are still struggling with the English language (and it is
>their second language), since they don't understand phrases like "NO"
>and "I'M NOT INTERESTED", so they go ahead and email you the same job
>description that you've already seen on Monster and the ARS list.
>
>Now I'm sure someone is going to read this and wonder why anyone is
>complaining about people calling them, trying to give them work, and I'm
>not complaining about all recruiters, so please don't take this the wrong
>way, since most recruiters I deal with are very courteous professionals,
>but there are a couple of firms out there (one based in India and on in the
>UK that I've dealt with) that just don't understand the word NO ... and
>after you turn them down for the 15th time and asked to be removed from
>their calling database, I guess you do the only thing you can and blacklist
>their email domain from your mail server and get yourself an air horn for
>when they call you :)
>
>OK ... I've gotten this off my chest now, so those that were patient enough
>to read my email ... I thank you and hope you have a great weekend.
>
>Mike
>
>

>
>UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
>
>20060125This posting was submitted with HTML in
>it
>
>

>UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
>


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org

List if you do not want to work with recruiters than don't. I'm a Resource
Manager for consulting firm and I have posted many positions on the list
and not one of you who is complaining has ever responded to my posting. Not
one of you have followed up with contacting my company or myself. We are
not a headhunting firm we are a consulting firm. You sit there and
complaine about Recruiters and how they are making all the money but when
consulting firms post their requirements on the list you don't respond to
them. You don't pick up the phone or send an email to them. Because if you
did you would find out that most of the engagements we have the expenses
are covered and the rates aren't that bad either.


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**
Then Keith, it might be a good idea to include that information in the post. The more you include the more likely you will get a response.

Everyone understands the values of recruiters and Resource Managers. They are just letting off some steam for those that are less reputable than you. It appears right now that a lot of people are working and there simply may not be someone available in the areas you're seeking to fill.

I don't think you'd really like all of us to reply with a, "Sorry, no thanks this time!"

Good luck,
Susan


On 2/19/06, Keith Bunescu wrote:

List if you do not want to work with recruiters than don't. I'm a Resource
Manager for consulting firm and I have posted many positions on the list
and not one of you who is complaining has ever responded to my posting. Not
one of you have followed up with contacting my company or myself. We are
not a headhunting firm we are a consulting firm. You sit there and
complaine about Recruiters and how they are making all the money but when
consulting firms post their requirements on the list you don't respond to
them. You don't pick up the phone or send an email to them. Because if you
did you would find out that most of the engagements we have the expenses
are covered and the rates aren't that bad either.


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org



20060125This posting was submitted with HTML in it

Mike, this was less about a response to your original email than it was an
attempt to cover myself in the wake of emails I got from Firms that I either
work through now, or have in the past that read my .02 posting here a few
days ago. They were wondering why I would make blanket statements about such
reputable businesses. I was doing more backpeddling than anything else.


Timothy Button
Remedy Systems Consultant
tbutton@remedyconsultant.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Mike McCourt
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:25 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Annoying Recruiters

Tim ... I went through the same dark days (however I believe mine were from
Feb 2002 - Nov 2002), where the the only remedy projects I could find were
those that paid $40/hour and they wanted me to pick up my own travel!

If you re-read my original email, I actaully said normally I'd be flattered,
but these folks are just plain ignorant about it ... how many times do I
have to turn down the same job before they quit calling!!!

Since posting this message, I've had two more emails from them that came in
which I've bounced(thank you spamware).

I also understand that these aren't remedy partners, I have working
relationships with 4 current Remedy/BMC partners, and each and everyone has
always conducted themselves as professionals ... this is a "fly-by-night"
firm that's just looking to staff a project and they're desperate. I'm
guessing they aren't offering enough money to get anyone to go work in
Madison in the dead of winter, and before all is said and done, they'll
probably want to have most of the development work done off-shore.

Mike


On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:34:45 -0600, Timothy Button
wrote:

>I want to clarify something else on this subject. During the dark days (Jan
>2001 through August 2001) most people got no calls for months on end.
People
>clamoring your your services is one of the best problems you can have.
>Somewhere, somebody who develops "Application X" is not getting called
while
>we are, so while the lack of information and decorum are annoying, how
would
>you feel when the phone never rang?
>
>Also, and I am not just saying this to backtrack; little or none of this
>behavior comes from actual BMC Partners. The culprits are the fly-by-night
>contract firms that pop up and disappear quickly.
>
>Timothy Button
>Remedy Systems Consultant
>tbutton@remedyconsultant.com
>
>
>
>
>
>From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
>[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of McKenzie, James J C-E LCMC
>HQISEC/L3
>Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:49 AM
>To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
>Subject: Re: Annoying Recruiters
>
>
>**
>
>Mike, Axton, et. al.:
>
>I agree. I got a call from an Indian (person from the country of India)
and
>I could not understand most of what he said and it took FOUR CALLS TO MY
>MOBILE PHONE before this individual got the idea that I was not interested
>in moving to Dallas Texas. I had stated that I would relocate on my
Monster
>resume. This means a permenant relocation where the company picks up my
>costs (and I do not plan on driving a U-Haul with my car on a dolly behind
>it.) I also received the barrage from the Madison, WI job. Looks like it
>is going to be a long day if they call again....
>
>James McKenzie
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
>[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Mike McCourt
>Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 8:24 PM
>To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
>Subject: OT: Annoying Recruiters
>
>
>All ... I know I can't be the only one that gets frustrated with this from
>time to time, but I just needed to vent, so please excuse my rant.
>
>I'm sure everyone that has a resume on Monster and even mentions the
>word "Remedy" in their resume has probably had someone contact them about
>these Remedy positions in Wisconsin, but enough is enough already.
>
>I've currently been contacted close to a dozen times already by various
>firms wanting to staff me into this position(s), and normally I would be
>flattered by this, but when certain IT solution companies (we'll call them
>Company X to project the rights of the ignorant) have every single
>recruiter call you, it starts to border on telemarketing. Now ... I can
>understand if a second recruiter for Company X accidentally contacts you,
>but when 4 different recruiters all call you, they're really not recruiters
>now are they ... they're more like college kids working through a
>computerized call list trying to sell you something.
>
>Now if what Company X has done so far isn't annoying enough, apparently
>their recruiters are still struggling with the English language (and it is
>their second language), since they don't understand phrases like "NO"
>and "I'M NOT INTERESTED", so they go ahead and email you the same job
>description that you've already seen on Monster and the ARS list.
>
>Now I'm sure someone is going to read this and wonder why anyone is
>complaining about people calling them, trying to give them work, and I'm
>not complaining about all recruiters, so please don't take this the wrong
>way, since most recruiters I deal with are very courteous professionals,
>but there are a couple of firms out there (one based in India and on in the
>UK that I've dealt with) that just don't understand the word NO ... and
>after you turn them down for the 15th time and asked to be removed from
>their calling database, I guess you do the only thing you can and blacklist
>their email domain from your mail server and get yourself an air horn for
>when they call you :)
>
>OK ... I've gotten this off my chest now, so those that were patient enough
>to read my email ... I thank you and hope you have a great weekend.
>
>Mike
>
>

>
>UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
>
>20060125This posting was submitted with HTML in
>it
>
>

>UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
>



UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org


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**

Mike and Tim:

I went through the same thing with the same company. They did not post a message here but went through Monster and probably Dice.com and scanned for Remedy. The first caller did not understand that I was neither available nor interested in the position. It took about twenty e-mail messages and about ten calls to my cellular phone before the message got through. This is not the situation I have encountered with reputable placement firms. It appears that the company is trying to 'low-ball' the contract with the client and the workers will be the one's that suffer when the company cannot meet the client's needs or they have to go over the original cost estimate. Reputiable firms also provide information, up front, on job requirements and what they will/will not do for you.

James McKenzie


-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Sent: 2/22/2006 6:24 AM
Subject: Re: Annoying Recruiters

Tim ... I went through the same dark days (however I believe mine were
from
Feb 2002 - Nov 2002), where the the only remedy projects I could find
were
those that paid $40/hour and they wanted me to pick up my own travel!

If you re-read my original email, I actaully said normally I'd be
flattered, but these folks are just plain ignorant about it ... how many

times do I have to turn down the same job before they quit calling!!!

Since posting this message, I've had two more emails from them that came
in
which I've bounced(thank you spamware).

I also understand that these aren't remedy partners, I have working
relationships with 4 current Remedy/BMC partners, and each and everyone
has
always conducted themselves as professionals ... this is a
"fly-by-night"
firm that's just looking to staff a project and they're desperate. I'm
guessing they aren't offering enough money to get anyone to go work in
Madison in the dead of winter, and before all is said and done, they'll
probably want to have most of the development work done off-shore.

Mike


On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:34:45 -0600, Timothy Button
wrote:

>I want to clarify something else on this subject. During the dark days
(Jan
>2001 through August 2001) most people got no calls for months on end.
People
>clamoring your your services is one of the best problems you can have.
>Somewhere, somebody who develops "Application X" is not getting called
while
>we are, so while the lack of information and decorum are annoying, how
would
>you feel when the phone never rang?
>
>Also, and I am not just saying this to backtrack; little or none of
this
>behavior comes from actual BMC Partners. The culprits are the
fly-by-night
>contract firms that pop up and disappear quickly.
>
>Timothy Button
>Remedy Systems Consultant
>tbutton@remedyconsultant.com
>
>
>
>
>
>From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
>[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of McKenzie, James J C-E LCMC
>HQISEC/L3
>Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:49 AM
>To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
>Subject: Re: Annoying Recruiters
>
>
>**
>
>Mike, Axton, et. al.:
>
>I agree. I got a call from an Indian (person from the country of
India)
and
>I could not understand most of what he said and it took FOUR CALLS TO
MY
>MOBILE PHONE before this individual got the idea that I was not
interested
>in moving to Dallas Texas. I had stated that I would relocate on my
Monster
>resume. This means a permenant relocation where the company picks up
my
>costs (and I do not plan on driving a U-Haul with my car on a dolly
behind
>it.) I also received the barrage from the Madison, WI job. Looks like
it
>is going to be a long day if they call again....
>
>James McKenzie
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
>[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Mike McCourt
>Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 8:24 PM
>To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
>Subject: OT: Annoying Recruiters
>
>
>All ... I know I can't be the only one that gets frustrated with this
from
>time to time, but I just needed to vent, so please excuse my rant.
>
>I'm sure everyone that has a resume on Monster and even mentions the
>word "Remedy" in their resume has probably had someone contact them
about
>these Remedy positions in Wisconsin, but enough is enough already.
>
>I've currently been contacted close to a dozen times already by various
>firms wanting to staff me into this position(s), and normally I would
be
>flattered by this, but when certain IT solution companies (we'll call
them
>Company X to project the rights of the ignorant) have every single
>recruiter call you, it starts to border on telemarketing. Now ... I can
>understand if a second recruiter for Company X accidentally contacts
you,
>but when 4 different recruiters all call you, they're really not
recruiters
>now are they ... they're more like college kids working through a
>computerized call list trying to sell you something.
>
>Now if what Company X has done so far isn't annoying enough, apparently
>their recruiters are still struggling with the English language (and it
is
>their second language), since they don't understand phrases like "NO"
>and "I'M NOT INTERESTED", so they go ahead and email you the same job
>description that you've already seen on Monster and the ARS list.
>
>Now I'm sure someone is going to read this and wonder why anyone is
>complaining about people calling them, trying to give them work, and
I'm
>not complaining about all recruiters, so please don't take this the
wrong
>way, since most recruiters I deal with are very courteous
professionals,
>but there are a couple of firms out there (one based in India and on in
the
>UK that I've dealt with) that just don't understand the word NO ... and
>after you turn them down for the 15th time and asked to be removed from
>their calling database, I guess you do the only thing you can and
blacklist
>their email domain from your mail server and get yourself an air horn
for
>when they call you :)
>
>OK ... I've gotten this off my chest now, so those that were patient
enough
>to read my email ... I thank you and hope you have a great weekend.
>
>Mike
>
>


>
>UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
>
>20060125This posting was submitted with HTML
in
>it
>
>


>UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
>



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