All ... I know I can't be the only one that gets frustrated with this from
time to time, but I just needed to vent, so please excuse my rant.

I'm sure everyone that has a resume on Monster and even mentions the
word "Remedy" in their resume has probably had someone contact them about
these Remedy positions in Wisconsin, but enough is enough already.

I've currently been contacted close to a dozen times already by various
firms wanting to staff me into this position(s), and normally I would be
flattered by this, but when certain IT solution companies (we'll call them
Company X to project the rights of the ignorant) have every single
recruiter call you, it starts to border on telemarketing. Now ... I can
understand if a second recruiter for Company X accidentally contacts you,
but when 4 different recruiters all call you, they're really not recruiters
now are they ... they're more like college kids working through a
computerized call list trying to sell you something.

Now if what Company X has done so far isn't annoying enough, apparently
their recruiters are still struggling with the English language (and it is
their second language), since they don't understand phrases like "NO"
and "I'M NOT INTERESTED", so they go ahead and email you the same job
description that you've already seen on Monster and the ARS list.

Now I'm sure someone is going to read this and wonder why anyone is
complaining about people calling them, trying to give them work, and I'm
not complaining about all recruiters, so please don't take this the wrong
way, since most recruiters I deal with are very courteous professionals,
but there are a couple of firms out there (one based in India and on in the
UK that I've dealt with) that just don't understand the word NO ... and
after you turn them down for the 15th time and asked to be removed from
their calling database, I guess you do the only thing you can and blacklist
their email domain from your mail server and get yourself an air horn for
when they call you :)

OK ... I've gotten this off my chest now, so those that were patient enough
to read my email ... I thank you and hope you have a great weekend.

Mike


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org

Mike
I also have been contacted a dozen times, mostly by email,
a couple of times by phone for the project you mentioned.
In either case it is not that big of a deal.
Email is easy to delete and I don't feel obligated to respond if
I am not interested. I do however get very irrated when I get a call
on a Saturday morning at 7:30 am asking me if blah blah blah.....

Most recruiters post their current openings on the arlist, which is
Great.
That is usually sufficient to get a response from any interested an
available Remedy developer. An these folks are usually in contact with
the Remedy world, not some job shop that just happened to get a lead for
a Remedy gig.

I do however........
get a kick out of recruiters that say our client is looking for a Remedy
Developer (sounds like they are direct to the client, right?) then say I
seen your resume on Monster and ask me my rate (it is also posted on
Monster). When I tell them my rate, they say they can only pay maybe
half of what I am asking and no T&E.


Most direct "bill to a client" are at a rate of $150 up and they want
someone will all this experience for $50-60 hr. Ummmm and you want to
pay me 50-60 and I get to pick up my own expenses......
I have been tempted to say "oh yeah, I'll take the job, I love flying
across
Country at my expense for a rate that after I pay my expenses may net me
$30 hr." but I have restrained myself. I just say no,then laugh when I
get off the phone"


Some of these Recruiters are trying to make a killing off the sweat of
the developer. After all who is doing the actually work, making your
client happy and bringing you back continued work.


Herb Partlow
President/CEO
IB Technical Consulting, Inc.


-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Mike McCourt
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 7:24 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: OT: Annoying Recruiters

All ... I know I can't be the only one that gets frustrated with this
from
time to time, but I just needed to vent, so please excuse my rant.

I'm sure everyone that has a resume on Monster and even mentions the
word "Remedy" in their resume has probably had someone contact them
about
these Remedy positions in Wisconsin, but enough is enough already.

I've currently been contacted close to a dozen times already by various
firms wanting to staff me into this position(s), and normally I would be

flattered by this, but when certain IT solution companies (we'll call
them
Company X to project the rights of the ignorant) have every single
recruiter call you, it starts to border on telemarketing. Now ... I can
understand if a second recruiter for Company X accidentally contacts
you,
but when 4 different recruiters all call you, they're really not
recruiters
now are they ... they're more like college kids working through a
computerized call list trying to sell you something.

Now if what Company X has done so far isn't annoying enough, apparently
their recruiters are still struggling with the English language (and it
is
their second language), since they don't understand phrases like "NO"
and "I'M NOT INTERESTED", so they go ahead and email you the same job
description that you've already seen on Monster and the ARS list.

Now I'm sure someone is going to read this and wonder why anyone is
complaining about people calling them, trying to give them work, and I'm

not complaining about all recruiters, so please don't take this the
wrong
way, since most recruiters I deal with are very courteous professionals,

but there are a couple of firms out there (one based in India and on in
the
UK that I've dealt with) that just don't understand the word NO ... and
after you turn them down for the 15th time and asked to be removed from
their calling database, I guess you do the only thing you can and
blacklist
their email domain from your mail server and get yourself an air horn
for
when they call you :)

OK ... I've gotten this off my chest now, so those that were patient
enough
to read my email ... I thank you and hope you have a great weekend.

Mike



UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org

** I get calls and emails all the time about Remedy jobs because my resume has been on the Internet a very long time and all the search engines have spidered it. A while back when I was aggressive about finding a gig, I kept tweaking my resume until it started showing up as the #1 or #2 link on Yahoo, Google, Excite, etc. so you can imagine the number of calls I got.

Sometimes I get a call from 5 or 6 recruiters (mostly from India) about the same job and sometimes the same recruiter calls me more than once because they forget that they have already called me. I have been called as early/late as 3:00 AM in the morning. In most cases, the rate they offer me is about 30% the rate that the actual employer is willing to pay. The last one I got was for $56 an hour corp to corp (and I pay my own expenses) for a job in Texas and I live in Atlanta. One of their favorite lines is that it is a "long term" project that can go on for a year or more. So, they expect me to leave my family and comfortable home and live in an Extended stay hotel for most of the year while they rack up about $200k a year from my sweat and experience. Not only that, but in some cases and I have seen this happen, the employer pays their bill for your time on time and the staffing /consulting company refuses to pay the consultant. I don't expect recruiters not to make any money at all but I expect it to be at least fair. With all the risk,effort, pain and discomfort associated with being a traveling consultant, I think I should get 80% or more of the rate and the staffing agency should get 20% or less and I believe that is more than fair.
--
-Ibrahim Akar

20060125This posting was submitted with HTML in it

I got into the habit of stating that I would only consider their
offering if they were willing to disclose the direct bill rate and
they were comfortable with 15% of that rate. That filtered just about
all of them out. You would be surprised how many companies will cut
off communications when you require that they disclose the actual bill
rate.

This brings up an interesting point though. What is a fair rate for a
placement firm to receive when placing someone? 15%, 25%, 50%, 75%?
What's everyone's thoughts on this. I am especially interested in
some responses from recruiters that follow this list. How much does
it take to run a placement firm?

Axton Grams

On 2/18/06, Ibrahim Akar wrote:
> ** I get calls and emails all the time about Remedy jobs because my resume
> has been on the Internet a very long time and all the search engines have
> spidered it. A while back when I was aggressive about finding a gig, I kept
> tweaking my resume until it started showing up as the #1 or #2 link on
> Yahoo, Google, Excite, etc. so you can imagine the number of calls I got.
>
> Sometimes I get a call from 5 or 6 recruiters (mostly from India) about the
> same job and sometimes the same recruiter calls me more than once because
> they forget that they have already called me. I have been called as
> early/late as 3:00 AM in the morning. In most cases, the rate they offer me
> is about 30% the rate that the actual employer is willing to pay. The last
> one I got was for $56 an hour corp to corp (and I pay my own expenses) for a
> job in Texas and I live in Atlanta. One of their favorite lines is that it
> is a "long term" project that can go on for a year or more. So, they expect
> me to leave my family and comfortable home and live in an Extended stay
> hotel for most of the year while they rack up about $200k a year from my
> sweat and experience. Not only that, but in some cases and I have seen this
> happen, the employer pays their bill for your time on time and the staffing
> /consulting company refuses to pay the consultant. I don't expect recruiters
> not to make any money at all but I expect it to be at least fair. With all
> the risk,effort, pain and discomfort associated with being a traveling
> consultant, I think I should get 80% or more of the rate and the staffing
> agency should get 20% or less and I believe that is more than fair.
> --
> -Ibrahim Akar
>
> 20060125This posting was submitted
> with HTML in it


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org

**
As much as they can get. In 1995 when a company I was working for got heavy into placement the minimum they wanted was 65% of the bill rate. The logic they used was they had the contact you did not. As the market place got more competitive they went as low as 50/50 however the management team always complained that they were not making money at this percentage. I guess it is all in the overhead needed. The more non-billable employees the higher the percent needed to pay for them.

Roger
20060125This posting was submitted with HTML in it

So as a developer, the position you have to put yourself into is: I
got the name, you got the position; here's what I need if you want to
associate my name with your company.

Public visibility of your knowledge is the best route to get to a
position where you can make those types of demands.


There are many ways to get your name known, and I plan to unveil
something that anyone can freely use to achieve just this in the near
future.


Axton Grams


On 2/18/06, Roger Justice wrote:
> **
> As much as they can get. In 1995 when a company I was working for got heavy
> into placement the minimum they wanted was 65% of the bill rate. The logic
> they used was they had the contact you did not. As the market place got more
> competitive they went as low as 50/50 however the management team always
> complained that they were not making money at this percentage. I guess it is
> all in the overhead needed. The more non-billable employees the higher the
> percent needed to pay for them.
>
> Roger
> 20060125This posting was submitted
> with HTML in it


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org

** The irony of course is that they really don't have the contact. All they usually have is a name and a phone number for a person they've never met and that person has given the data to practically everyone in the world when they expressed a desire to find a resource. If we all tapped in to that network so we had the stranger's name and number, we could probably do them a favor by offering our services at a reasonable rate without the margin. They would save money if we all made the effort to incorporate and learn the lingo.

The other irony I see is that any recruiter that set up a good network for ARS developers to work from home and then offered a discount to their clients could probably land a lot of developers even at the ridiculous margins they want to keep for themselves. Their sales pitch would have to include a line about how they trim incompetence and provide support for quick and reliable contact with the developer (video, audio, email and so on). If they did that, they could undercut their competitors (they would have to in order to get some clients to take the risk) and still make their margins because many of us would go for it to avoid the travel or relocation.


On 2/18/06, Roger Justice wrote:

**
As much as they can get. In 1995 when a company I was working for got heavy into placement the minimum they wanted was 65% of the bill rate. The logic they used was they had the contact you did not. As the market place got more competitive they went as low as 50/50 however the management team always complained that they were not making money at this percentage. I guess it is all in the overhead needed. The more non-billable employees the higher the percent needed to pay for them.


Roger
20060125This posting was submitted with HTML in it




--
-al 20060125This posting was submitted with HTML in it

Some good thoughts. I know I wouldn't mind doing some side work from
home at times.

Axton Grams

On 2/18/06, Alfred Differ wrote:
> ** The irony of course is that they really don't have the contact. All they
> usually have is a name and a phone number for a person they've never met and
> that person has given the data to practically everyone in the world when
> they expressed a desire to find a resource. If we all tapped in to that
> network so we had the stranger's name and number, we could probably do them
> a favor by offering our services at a reasonable rate without the margin.
> They would save money if we all made the effort to incorporate and learn the
> lingo.
>
> The other irony I see is that any recruiter that set up a good network for
> ARS developers to work from home and then offered a discount to their
> clients could probably land a lot of developers even at the ridiculous
> margins they want to keep for themselves. Their sales pitch would have to
> include a line about how they trim incompetence and provide support for
> quick and reliable contact with the developer (video, audio, email and so
> on). If they did that, they could undercut their competitors (they would
> have to in order to get some clients to take the risk) and still make their
> margins because many of us would go for it to avoid the travel or
> relocation.
>
> On 2/18/06, Roger Justice wrote:
> > **
> > As much as they can get. In 1995 when a company I was working for got
> heavy into placement the minimum they wanted was 65% of the bill rate. The
> logic they used was they had the contact you did not. As the market place
> got more competitive they went as low as 50/50 however the management team
> always complained that they were not making money at this percentage. I
> guess it is all in the overhead needed. The more non-billable employees the
> higher the percent needed to pay for them.
> >
> > Roger
> > 20060125This posting was
> submitted with HTML in it
>
>
>
> --
> -al 20060125This posting was
> submitted with HTML in it


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org

All ... I know I can't be the only one that gets frustrated with this from
time to time, but I just needed to vent, so please excuse my rant.

I'm sure everyone that has a resume on Monster and even mentions the
word "Remedy" in their resume has probably had someone contact them about
these Remedy positions in Wisconsin, but enough is enough already.

I've currently been contacted close to a dozen times already by various
firms wanting to staff me into this position(s), and normally I would be
flattered by this, but when certain IT solution companies (we'll call them
Company X to project the rights of the ignorant) have every single
recruiter call you, it starts to border on telemarketing. Now ... I can
understand if a second recruiter for Company X accidentally contacts you,
but when 4 different recruiters all call you, they're really not recruiters
now are they ... they're more like college kids working through a
computerized call list trying to sell you something.

Now if what Company X has done so far isn't annoying enough, apparently
their recruiters are still struggling with the English language (and it is
their second language), since they don't understand phrases like "NO"
and "I'M NOT INTERESTED", so they go ahead and email you the same job
description that you've already seen on Monster and the ARS list.

Now I'm sure someone is going to read this and wonder why anyone is
complaining about people calling them, trying to give them work, and I'm
not complaining about all recruiters, so please don't take this the wrong
way, since most recruiters I deal with are very courteous professionals,
but there are a couple of firms out there (one based in India and on in the
UK that I've dealt with) that just don't understand the word NO ... and
after you turn them down for the 15th time and asked to be removed from
their calling database, I guess you do the only thing you can and blacklist
their email domain from your mail server and get yourself an air horn for
when they call you :)

OK ... I've gotten this off my chest now, so those that were patient enough
to read my email ... I thank you and hope you have a great weekend.

Mike


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org

Mike
I also have been contacted a dozen times, mostly by email,
a couple of times by phone for the project you mentioned.
In either case it is not that big of a deal.
Email is easy to delete and I don't feel obligated to respond if
I am not interested. I do however get very irrated when I get a call
on a Saturday morning at 7:30 am asking me if blah blah blah.....

Most recruiters post their current openings on the arlist, which is
Great.
That is usually sufficient to get a response from any interested an
available Remedy developer. An these folks are usually in contact with
the Remedy world, not some job shop that just happened to get a lead for
a Remedy gig.

I do however........
get a kick out of recruiters that say our client is looking for a Remedy
Developer (sounds like they are direct to the client, right?) then say I
seen your resume on Monster and ask me my rate (it is also posted on
Monster). When I tell them my rate, they say they can only pay maybe
half of what I am asking and no T&E.


Most direct "bill to a client" are at a rate of $150 up and they want
someone will all this experience for $50-60 hr. Ummmm and you want to
pay me 50-60 and I get to pick up my own expenses......
I have been tempted to say "oh yeah, I'll take the job, I love flying
across
Country at my expense for a rate that after I pay my expenses may net me
$30 hr." but I have restrained myself. I just say no,then laugh when I
get off the phone"


Some of these Recruiters are trying to make a killing off the sweat of
the developer. After all who is doing the actually work, making your
client happy and bringing you back continued work.


Herb Partlow
President/CEO
IB Technical Consulting, Inc.


-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Mike McCourt
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 7:24 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: OT: Annoying Recruiters

All ... I know I can't be the only one that gets frustrated with this
from
time to time, but I just needed to vent, so please excuse my rant.

I'm sure everyone that has a resume on Monster and even mentions the
word "Remedy" in their resume has probably had someone contact them
about
these Remedy positions in Wisconsin, but enough is enough already.

I've currently been contacted close to a dozen times already by various
firms wanting to staff me into this position(s), and normally I would be

flattered by this, but when certain IT solution companies (we'll call
them
Company X to project the rights of the ignorant) have every single
recruiter call you, it starts to border on telemarketing. Now ... I can
understand if a second recruiter for Company X accidentally contacts
you,
but when 4 different recruiters all call you, they're really not
recruiters
now are they ... they're more like college kids working through a
computerized call list trying to sell you something.

Now if what Company X has done so far isn't annoying enough, apparently
their recruiters are still struggling with the English language (and it
is
their second language), since they don't understand phrases like "NO"
and "I'M NOT INTERESTED", so they go ahead and email you the same job
description that you've already seen on Monster and the ARS list.

Now I'm sure someone is going to read this and wonder why anyone is
complaining about people calling them, trying to give them work, and I'm

not complaining about all recruiters, so please don't take this the
wrong
way, since most recruiters I deal with are very courteous professionals,

but there are a couple of firms out there (one based in India and on in
the
UK that I've dealt with) that just don't understand the word NO ... and
after you turn them down for the 15th time and asked to be removed from
their calling database, I guess you do the only thing you can and
blacklist
their email domain from your mail server and get yourself an air horn
for
when they call you :)

OK ... I've gotten this off my chest now, so those that were patient
enough
to read my email ... I thank you and hope you have a great weekend.

Mike



UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org

** I get calls and emails all the time about Remedy jobs because my resume has been on the Internet a very long time and all the search engines have spidered it. A while back when I was aggressive about finding a gig, I kept tweaking my resume until it started showing up as the #1 or #2 link on Yahoo, Google, Excite, etc. so you can imagine the number of calls I got.

Sometimes I get a call from 5 or 6 recruiters (mostly from India) about the same job and sometimes the same recruiter calls me more than once because they forget that they have already called me. I have been called as early/late as 3:00 AM in the morning. In most cases, the rate they offer me is about 30% the rate that the actual employer is willing to pay. The last one I got was for $56 an hour corp to corp (and I pay my own expenses) for a job in Texas and I live in Atlanta. One of their favorite lines is that it is a "long term" project that can go on for a year or more. So, they expect me to leave my family and comfortable home and live in an Extended stay hotel for most of the year while they rack up about $200k a year from my sweat and experience. Not only that, but in some cases and I have seen this happen, the employer pays their bill for your time on time and the staffing /consulting company refuses to pay the consultant. I don't expect recruiters not to make any money at all but I expect it to be at least fair. With all the risk,effort, pain and discomfort associated with being a traveling consultant, I think I should get 80% or more of the rate and the staffing agency should get 20% or less and I believe that is more than fair.
--
-Ibrahim Akar

20060125This posting was submitted with HTML in it

I got into the habit of stating that I would only consider their
offering if they were willing to disclose the direct bill rate and
they were comfortable with 15% of that rate. That filtered just about
all of them out. You would be surprised how many companies will cut
off communications when you require that they disclose the actual bill
rate.

This brings up an interesting point though. What is a fair rate for a
placement firm to receive when placing someone? 15%, 25%, 50%, 75%?
What's everyone's thoughts on this. I am especially interested in
some responses from recruiters that follow this list. How much does
it take to run a placement firm?

Axton Grams

On 2/18/06, Ibrahim Akar wrote:
> ** I get calls and emails all the time about Remedy jobs because my resume
> has been on the Internet a very long time and all the search engines have
> spidered it. A while back when I was aggressive about finding a gig, I kept
> tweaking my resume until it started showing up as the #1 or #2 link on
> Yahoo, Google, Excite, etc. so you can imagine the number of calls I got.
>
> Sometimes I get a call from 5 or 6 recruiters (mostly from India) about the
> same job and sometimes the same recruiter calls me more than once because
> they forget that they have already called me. I have been called as
> early/late as 3:00 AM in the morning. In most cases, the rate they offer me
> is about 30% the rate that the actual employer is willing to pay. The last
> one I got was for $56 an hour corp to corp (and I pay my own expenses) for a
> job in Texas and I live in Atlanta. One of their favorite lines is that it
> is a "long term" project that can go on for a year or more. So, they expect
> me to leave my family and comfortable home and live in an Extended stay
> hotel for most of the year while they rack up about $200k a year from my
> sweat and experience. Not only that, but in some cases and I have seen this
> happen, the employer pays their bill for your time on time and the staffing
> /consulting company refuses to pay the consultant. I don't expect recruiters
> not to make any money at all but I expect it to be at least fair. With all
> the risk,effort, pain and discomfort associated with being a traveling
> consultant, I think I should get 80% or more of the rate and the staffing
> agency should get 20% or less and I believe that is more than fair.
> --
> -Ibrahim Akar
>
> 20060125This posting was submitted
> with HTML in it


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org

**
As much as they can get. In 1995 when a company I was working for got heavy into placement the minimum they wanted was 65% of the bill rate. The logic they used was they had the contact you did not. As the market place got more competitive they went as low as 50/50 however the management team always complained that they were not making money at this percentage. I guess it is all in the overhead needed. The more non-billable employees the higher the percent needed to pay for them.

Roger
20060125This posting was submitted with HTML in it

So as a developer, the position you have to put yourself into is: I
got the name, you got the position; here's what I need if you want to
associate my name with your company.

Public visibility of your knowledge is the best route to get to a
position where you can make those types of demands.


There are many ways to get your name known, and I plan to unveil
something that anyone can freely use to achieve just this in the near
future.


Axton Grams


On 2/18/06, Roger Justice wrote:
> **
> As much as they can get. In 1995 when a company I was working for got heavy
> into placement the minimum they wanted was 65% of the bill rate. The logic
> they used was they had the contact you did not. As the market place got more
> competitive they went as low as 50/50 however the management team always
> complained that they were not making money at this percentage. I guess it is
> all in the overhead needed. The more non-billable employees the higher the
> percent needed to pay for them.
>
> Roger
> 20060125This posting was submitted
> with HTML in it


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org

** The irony of course is that they really don't have the contact. All they usually have is a name and a phone number for a person they've never met and that person has given the data to practically everyone in the world when they expressed a desire to find a resource. If we all tapped in to that network so we had the stranger's name and number, we could probably do them a favor by offering our services at a reasonable rate without the margin. They would save money if we all made the effort to incorporate and learn the lingo.

The other irony I see is that any recruiter that set up a good network for ARS developers to work from home and then offered a discount to their clients could probably land a lot of developers even at the ridiculous margins they want to keep for themselves. Their sales pitch would have to include a line about how they trim incompetence and provide support for quick and reliable contact with the developer (video, audio, email and so on). If they did that, they could undercut their competitors (they would have to in order to get some clients to take the risk) and still make their margins because many of us would go for it to avoid the travel or relocation.


On 2/18/06, Roger Justice wrote:

**
As much as they can get. In 1995 when a company I was working for got heavy into placement the minimum they wanted was 65% of the bill rate. The logic they used was they had the contact you did not. As the market place got more competitive they went as low as 50/50 however the management team always complained that they were not making money at this percentage. I guess it is all in the overhead needed. The more non-billable employees the higher the percent needed to pay for them.


Roger
20060125This posting was submitted with HTML in it




--
-al 20060125This posting was submitted with HTML in it

Some good thoughts. I know I wouldn't mind doing some side work from
home at times.

Axton Grams

On 2/18/06, Alfred Differ wrote:
> ** The irony of course is that they really don't have the contact. All they
> usually have is a name and a phone number for a person they've never met and
> that person has given the data to practically everyone in the world when
> they expressed a desire to find a resource. If we all tapped in to that
> network so we had the stranger's name and number, we could probably do them
> a favor by offering our services at a reasonable rate without the margin.
> They would save money if we all made the effort to incorporate and learn the
> lingo.
>
> The other irony I see is that any recruiter that set up a good network for
> ARS developers to work from home and then offered a discount to their
> clients could probably land a lot of developers even at the ridiculous
> margins they want to keep for themselves. Their sales pitch would have to
> include a line about how they trim incompetence and provide support for
> quick and reliable contact with the developer (video, audio, email and so
> on). If they did that, they could undercut their competitors (they would
> have to in order to get some clients to take the risk) and still make their
> margins because many of us would go for it to avoid the travel or
> relocation.
>
> On 2/18/06, Roger Justice wrote:
> > **
> > As much as they can get. In 1995 when a company I was working for got
> heavy into placement the minimum they wanted was 65% of the bill rate. The
> logic they used was they had the contact you did not. As the market place
> got more competitive they went as low as 50/50 however the management team
> always complained that they were not making money at this percentage. I
> guess it is all in the overhead needed. The more non-billable employees the
> higher the percent needed to pay for them.
> >
> > Roger
> > 20060125This posting was
> submitted with HTML in it
>
>
>
> --
> -al 20060125This posting was
> submitted with HTML in it


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Here here to all that has been said above. If you are a permanent developer,
that level of bombardment can be overbearing, but non-response is a good
deterrent. I however am an independant consultant who lives by the contact
by these people so you have to understand that the barrage approach does
work for recruiters in cases like me. That being said, the following things
could be done to improve the relationship between recruiters and Remedy
Professionals:

1. Recruiters: Read my resume. If I integrated Remedy with Peoplesoft a
couple of times 4 years ago, or did an Altiris integration one summer, I
shouldn't be contacted hundreds of times for Peoplesoft implementations, or
Altiris contracts.

2. Recruiters: Again, Read my resume. I also may have already have worked,
or still work at the company you are trying to place.

3. Recruiters: I want to see my resume that you are forwarding to your
customer. Not saying you insert things in that aren't genuine, but its me
you are representing.

4. Recruiters: I am not here to educate you on Remedy. If you have to ask
what it is, how can I ever expect you to understand what skills I might have
to better position myself for work.

5. Recruiters: This is REAL CONTROVERSIAL, and I don't want to offend
anyone, as I know I will. If you are a recruiter in the United States that
speaks little, or no English, and you are placing me for a Remedy project in
the U.S, I might be concerned that either I, or prospective clients might
have a communication gap with you. If you call and leave me a Voicemail, and
the only words of your message I understand are my first name and your phone
number, I will probably not call you back. Its just an unspoken thing that
nobody on this list talks about. Recruiters are salespeople, and the
commodity they are selling is you. It's a hard thing to talk about, but I
wouldn't buy a car, or house from someone I couldn't understand, why would I
risk my career in that same fashion?


Timothy Button
Remedy Systems Consultant
tbutton@remedyconsultant.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Mike McCourt
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 9:24 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: OT: Annoying Recruiters

All ... I know I can't be the only one that gets frustrated with this from
time to time, but I just needed to vent, so please excuse my rant.

I'm sure everyone that has a resume on Monster and even mentions the word
"Remedy" in their resume has probably had someone contact them about these
Remedy positions in Wisconsin, but enough is enough already.

I've currently been contacted close to a dozen times already by various
firms wanting to staff me into this position(s), and normally I would be
flattered by this, but when certain IT solution companies (we'll call them
Company X to project the rights of the ignorant) have every single recruiter
call you, it starts to border on telemarketing. Now ... I can understand if
a second recruiter for Company X accidentally contacts you, but when 4
different recruiters all call you, they're really not recruiters now are
they ... they're more like college kids working through a computerized call
list trying to sell you something.

Now if what Company X has done so far isn't annoying enough, apparently
their recruiters are still struggling with the English language (and it is
their second language), since they don't understand phrases like "NO"
and "I'M NOT INTERESTED", so they go ahead and email you the same job
description that you've already seen on Monster and the ARS list.

Now I'm sure someone is going to read this and wonder why anyone is
complaining about people calling them, trying to give them work, and I'm not
complaining about all recruiters, so please don't take this the wrong way,
since most recruiters I deal with are very courteous professionals, but
there are a couple of firms out there (one based in India and on in the UK
that I've dealt with) that just don't understand the word NO ... and after
you turn them down for the 15th time and asked to be removed from their
calling database, I guess you do the only thing you can and blacklist their
email domain from your mail server and get yourself an air horn for when
they call you :)

OK ... I've gotten this off my chest now, so those that were patient enough
to read my email ... I thank you and hope you have a great weekend.

Mike



UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org

**

They hit me again, and this is AFTER I told them that I would not be able to fill the position(s).

James McKenzie


-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Mike McCourt
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 8:24 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: OT: Annoying Recruiters


All ... I know I can't be the only one that gets frustrated with this from
time to time, but I just needed to vent, so please excuse my rant.

I'm sure everyone that has a resume on Monster and even mentions the
word "Remedy" in their resume has probably had someone contact them about
these Remedy positions in Wisconsin, but enough is enough already.

I've currently been contacted close to a dozen times already by various
firms wanting to staff me into this position(s), and normally I would be
flattered by this, but when certain IT solution companies (we'll call them
Company X to project the rights of the ignorant) have every single
recruiter call you, it starts to border on telemarketing. Now ... I can
understand if a second recruiter for Company X accidentally contacts you,
but when 4 different recruiters all call you, they're really not recruiters
now are they ... they're more like college kids working through a
computerized call list trying to sell you something.

Now if what Company X has done so far isn't annoying enough, apparently
their recruiters are still struggling with the English language (and it is
their second language), since they don't understand phrases like "NO"
and "I'M NOT INTERESTED", so they go ahead and email you the same job
description that you've already seen on Monster and the ARS list.

Now I'm sure someone is going to read this and wonder why anyone is
complaining about people calling them, trying to give them work, and I'm
not complaining about all recruiters, so please don't take this the wrong
way, since most recruiters I deal with are very courteous professionals,
but there are a couple of firms out there (one based in India and on in the
UK that I've dealt with) that just don't understand the word NO ... and
after you turn them down for the 15th time and asked to be removed from
their calling database, I guess you do the only thing you can and blacklist
their email domain from your mail server and get yourself an air horn for
when they call you :)

OK ... I've gotten this off my chest now, so those that were patient enough
to read my email ... I thank you and hope you have a great weekend.

Mike


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org

20060125This posting was submitted with HTML in it

**

Mike, Axton, et. al.:

I agree. I got a call from an Indian (person from the country of India) and I could not understand most of what he said and it took FOUR CALLS TO MY MOBILE PHONE before this individual got the idea that I was not interested in moving to Dallas Texas. I had stated that I would relocate on my Monster resume. This means a permenant relocation where the company picks up my costs (and I do not plan on driving a U-Haul with my car on a dolly behind it.) I also received the barrage from the Madison, WI job. Looks like it is going to be a long day if they call again....

James McKenzie


-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Mike McCourt
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 8:24 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: OT: Annoying Recruiters


All ... I know I can't be the only one that gets frustrated with this from
time to time, but I just needed to vent, so please excuse my rant.

I'm sure everyone that has a resume on Monster and even mentions the
word "Remedy" in their resume has probably had someone contact them about
these Remedy positions in Wisconsin, but enough is enough already.

I've currently been contacted close to a dozen times already by various
firms wanting to staff me into this position(s), and normally I would be
flattered by this, but when certain IT solution companies (we'll call them
Company X to project the rights of the ignorant) have every single
recruiter call you, it starts to border on telemarketing. Now ... I can
understand if a second recruiter for Company X accidentally contacts you,
but when 4 different recruiters all call you, they're really not recruiters
now are they ... they're more like college kids working through a
computerized call list trying to sell you something.

Now if what Company X has done so far isn't annoying enough, apparently
their recruiters are still struggling with the English language (and it is
their second language), since they don't understand phrases like "NO"
and "I'M NOT INTERESTED", so they go ahead and email you the same job
description that you've already seen on Monster and the ARS list.

Now I'm sure someone is going to read this and wonder why anyone is
complaining about people calling them, trying to give them work, and I'm
not complaining about all recruiters, so please don't take this the wrong
way, since most recruiters I deal with are very courteous professionals,
but there are a couple of firms out there (one based in India and on in the
UK that I've dealt with) that just don't understand the word NO ... and
after you turn them down for the 15th time and asked to be removed from
their calling database, I guess you do the only thing you can and blacklist
their email domain from your mail server and get yourself an air horn for
when they call you :)

OK ... I've gotten this off my chest now, so those that were patient enough
to read my email ... I thank you and hope you have a great weekend.

Mike


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org

20060125This posting was submitted with HTML in it

**
I want to clarify something else on this subject. During the dark days (Jan 2001 through August 2001) most people got no calls for months on end. People clamoring your your services is one of the best problems you can have. Somewhere, somebody who develops "Application X" is not getting called while we are, so while the lack of information and decorum are annoying, how would you feel when the phone never rang?

Also, and I am not just saying this to backtrack; little or none of this behavior comes from actual BMC Partners. The culprits are the fly-by-night contract firms that pop up and disappear quickly.

Timothy Button
Remedy Systems Consultant
tbutton@remedyconsultant.com





From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of McKenzie, James J C-E LCMC HQISEC/L3
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:49 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Annoying Recruiters


**

Mike, Axton, et. al.:

I agree. I got a call from an Indian (person from the country of India) and I could not understand most of what he said and it took FOUR CALLS TO MY MOBILE PHONE before this individual got the idea that I was not interested in moving to Dallas Texas. I had stated that I would relocate on my Monster resume. This means a permenant relocation where the company picks up my costs (and I do not plan on driving a U-Haul with my car on a dolly behind it.) I also received the barrage from the Madison, WI job. Looks like it is going to be a long day if they call again....

James McKenzie


-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Mike McCourt
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 8:24 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: OT: Annoying Recruiters


All ... I know I can't be the only one that gets frustrated with this from
time to time, but I just needed to vent, so please excuse my rant.

I'm sure everyone that has a resume on Monster and even mentions the
word "Remedy" in their resume has probably had someone contact them about
these Remedy positions in Wisconsin, but enough is enough already.

I've currently been contacted close to a dozen times already by various
firms wanting to staff me into this position(s), and normally I would be
flattered by this, but when certain IT solution companies (we'll call them
Company X to project the rights of the ignorant) have every single
recruiter call you, it starts to border on telemarketing. Now .. I can
understand if a second recruiter for Company X accidentally contacts you,
but when 4 different recruiters all call you, they're really not recruiters
now are they ... they're more like college kids working through a
computerized call list trying to sell you something.

Now if what Company X has done so far isn't annoying enough, apparently
their recruiters are still struggling with the English language (and it is
their second language), since they don't understand phrases like "NO"
and "I'M NOT INTERESTED", so they go ahead and email you the same job
description that you've already seen on Monster and the ARS list.

Now I'm sure someone is going to read this and wonder why anyone is
complaining about people calling them, trying to give them work, and I'm
not complaining about all recruiters, so please don't take this the wrong
way, since most recruiters I deal with are very courteous professionals,
but there are a couple of firms out there (one based in India and on in the
UK that I've dealt with) that just don't understand the word NO ... and
after you turn them down for the 15th time and asked to be removed from
their calling database, I guess you do the only thing you can and blacklist
their email domain from your mail server and get yourself an air horn for
when they call you :)

OK ... I've gotten this off my chest now, so those that were patient enough
to read my email ... I thank you and hope you have a great weekend.

Mike


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org

20060125This posting was submitted with HTML in it
20060125This posting was submitted with HTML in it

**

You can always look at the bright side.. demand is up.



Needless to say, I can't blame you for being pissed. I would be too.



But I have to admit that it is nice to see a demand out there.



Scott

20060125This posting was submitted with HTML in it 20060125This posting was submitted with HTML in it

**

Timothy:

I agree with your comments. Legitimate companies employ folks who speak, read and write YOUR language no matter where they come from. I worked a stint with a call center and I had to speak to folks from outside of the U.S. These folks had NO problems (or mostly none) understanding myself and the customer (if needed) to get many problems resolved. It is my opinion that these folks are looking to make the fast dollar and then leave their employees high and dry.

We don't need them and we definately do not need to work for them.

James McKenzie
-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Timothy Button
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 2:35 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Annoying Recruiters


**
I want to clarify something else on this subject. During the dark days (Jan 2001 through August 2001) most people got no calls for months on end. People clamoring your your services is one of the best problems you can have. Somewhere, somebody who develops "Application X" is not getting called while we are, so while the lack of information and decorum are annoying, how would you feel when the phone never rang?

Also, and I am not just saying this to backtrack; little or none of this behavior comes from actual BMC Partners. The culprits are the fly-by-night contract firms that pop up and disappear quickly.

Timothy Button
Remedy Systems Consultant
tbutton@remedyconsultant.com






From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of McKenzie, James J C-E LCMC HQISEC/L3

Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:49 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Annoying Recruiters


**
Mike, Axton, et. al.:
I agree. I got a call from an Indian (person from the country of India) and I could not understand most of what he said and it took FOUR CALLS TO MY MOBILE PHONE before this individual got the idea that I was not interested in moving to Dallas Texas. I had stated that I would relocate on my Monster resume. This means a permenant relocation where the company picks up my costs (and I do not plan on driving a U-Haul with my car on a dolly behind it.) I also received the barrage from the Madison, WI job. Looks like it is going to be a long day if they call again....

James McKenzie


-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Mike McCourt
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 8:24 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: OT: Annoying Recruiters


All ... I know I can't be the only one that gets frustrated with this from
time to time, but I just needed to vent, so please excuse my rant.
I'm sure everyone that has a resume on Monster and even mentions the
word "Remedy" in their resume has probably had someone contact them about
these Remedy positions in Wisconsin, but enough is enough already.
I've currently been contacted close to a dozen times already by various
firms wanting to staff me into this position(s), and normally I would be
flattered by this, but when certain IT solution companies (we'll call them
Company X to project the rights of the ignorant) have every single
recruiter call you, it starts to border on telemarketing. Now .. I can
understand if a second recruiter for Company X accidentally contacts you,
but when 4 different recruiters all call you, they're really not recruiters
now are they ... they're more like college kids working through a
computerized call list trying to sell you something.
Now if what Company X has done so far isn't annoying enough, apparently
their recruiters are still struggling with the English language (and it is
their second language), since they don't understand phrases like "NO"
and "I'M NOT INTERESTED", so they go ahead and email you the same job
description that you've already seen on Monster and the ARS list.
Now I'm sure someone is going to read this and wonder why anyone is
complaining about people calling them, trying to give them work, and I'm
not complaining about all recruiters, so please don't take this the wrong
way, since most recruiters I deal with are very courteous professionals,
but there are a couple of firms out there (one based in India and on in the
UK that I've dealt with) that just don't understand the word NO ... and
after you turn them down for the 15th time and asked to be removed from
their calling database, I guess you do the only thing you can and blacklist
their email domain from your mail server and get yourself an air horn for
when they call you :)
OK ... I've gotten this off my chest now, so those that were patient enough
to read my email ... I thank you and hope you have a great weekend.
Mike

UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
20060125This posting was submitted with HTML in it 20060125This posting was submitted with HTML in it

20060125This posting was submitted with HTML in it

Tim ... I went through the same dark days (however I believe mine were from
Feb 2002 - Nov 2002), where the the only remedy projects I could find were
those that paid $40/hour and they wanted me to pick up my own travel!

If you re-read my original email, I actaully said normally I'd be
flattered, but these folks are just plain ignorant about it ... how many
times do I have to turn down the same job before they quit calling!!!

Since posting this message, I've had two more emails from them that came in
which I've bounced(thank you spamware).

I also understand that these aren't remedy partners, I have working
relationships with 4 current Remedy/BMC partners, and each and everyone has
always conducted themselves as professionals ... this is a "fly-by-night"
firm that's just looking to staff a project and they're desperate. I'm
guessing they aren't offering enough money to get anyone to go work in
Madison in the dead of winter, and before all is said and done, they'll
probably want to have most of the development work done off-shore.

Mike


On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:34:45 -0600, Timothy Button
wrote:

>I want to clarify something else on this subject. During the dark days (Jan
>2001 through August 2001) most people got no calls for months on end.
People
>clamoring your your services is one of the best problems you can have.
>Somewhere, somebody who develops "Application X" is not getting called
while
>we are, so while the lack of information and decorum are annoying, how
would
>you feel when the phone never rang?
>
>Also, and I am not just saying this to backtrack; little or none of this
>behavior comes from actual BMC Partners. The culprits are the fly-by-night
>contract firms that pop up and disappear quickly.
>
>Timothy Button
>Remedy Systems Consultant
>tbutton@remedyconsultant.com
>
>
>
>
>
>From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
>[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of McKenzie, James J C-E LCMC
>HQISEC/L3
>Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:49 AM
>To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
>Subject: Re: Annoying Recruiters
>
>
>**
>
>Mike, Axton, et. al.:
>
>I agree. I got a call from an Indian (person from the country of India)
and
>I could not understand most of what he said and it took FOUR CALLS TO MY
>MOBILE PHONE before this individual got the idea that I was not interested
>in moving to Dallas Texas. I had stated that I would relocate on my
Monster
>resume. This means a permenant relocation where the company picks up my
>costs (and I do not plan on driving a U-Haul with my car on a dolly behind
>it.) I also received the barrage from the Madison, WI job. Looks like it
>is going to be a long day if they call again....
>
>James McKenzie
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
>[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Mike McCourt
>Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 8:24 PM
>To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
>Subject: OT: Annoying Recruiters
>
>
>All ... I know I can't be the only one that gets frustrated with this from
>time to time, but I just needed to vent, so please excuse my rant.
>
>I'm sure everyone that has a resume on Monster and even mentions the
>word "Remedy" in their resume has probably had someone contact them about
>these Remedy positions in Wisconsin, but enough is enough already.
>
>I've currently been contacted close to a dozen times already by various
>firms wanting to staff me into this position(s), and normally I would be
>flattered by this, but when certain IT solution companies (we'll call them
>Company X to project the rights of the ignorant) have every single
>recruiter call you, it starts to border on telemarketing. Now ... I can
>understand if a second recruiter for Company X accidentally contacts you,
>but when 4 different recruiters all call you, they're really not recruiters
>now are they ... they're more like college kids working through a
>computerized call list trying to sell you something.
>
>Now if what Company X has done so far isn't annoying enough, apparently
>their recruiters are still struggling with the English language (and it is
>their second language), since they don't understand phrases like "NO"
>and "I'M NOT INTERESTED", so they go ahead and email you the same job
>description that you've already seen on Monster and the ARS list.
>
>Now I'm sure someone is going to read this and wonder why anyone is
>complaining about people calling them, trying to give them work, and I'm
>not complaining about all recruiters, so please don't take this the wrong
>way, since most recruiters I deal with are very courteous professionals,
>but there are a couple of firms out there (one based in India and on in the
>UK that I've dealt with) that just don't understand the word NO ... and
>after you turn them down for the 15th time and asked to be removed from
>their calling database, I guess you do the only thing you can and blacklist
>their email domain from your mail server and get yourself an air horn for
>when they call you :)
>
>OK ... I've gotten this off my chest now, so those that were patient enough
>to read my email ... I thank you and hope you have a great weekend.
>
>Mike
>
>

>
>UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
>
>20060125This posting was submitted with HTML in
>it
>
>

>UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
>


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List if you do not want to work with recruiters than don't. I'm a Resource
Manager for consulting firm and I have posted many positions on the list
and not one of you who is complaining has ever responded to my posting. Not
one of you have followed up with contacting my company or myself. We are
not a headhunting firm we are a consulting firm. You sit there and
complaine about Recruiters and how they are making all the money but when
consulting firms post their requirements on the list you don't respond to
them. You don't pick up the phone or send an email to them. Because if you
did you would find out that most of the engagements we have the expenses
are covered and the rates aren't that bad either.


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org

**
Then Keith, it might be a good idea to include that information in the post. The more you include the more likely you will get a response.

Everyone understands the values of recruiters and Resource Managers. They are just letting off some steam for those that are less reputable than you. It appears right now that a lot of people are working and there simply may not be someone available in the areas you're seeking to fill.

I don't think you'd really like all of us to reply with a, "Sorry, no thanks this time!"

Good luck,
Susan


On 2/19/06, Keith Bunescu wrote:

List if you do not want to work with recruiters than don't. I'm a Resource
Manager for consulting firm and I have posted many positions on the list
and not one of you who is complaining has ever responded to my posting. Not
one of you have followed up with contacting my company or myself. We are
not a headhunting firm we are a consulting firm. You sit there and
complaine about Recruiters and how they are making all the money but when
consulting firms post their requirements on the list you don't respond to
them. You don't pick up the phone or send an email to them. Because if you
did you would find out that most of the engagements we have the expenses
are covered and the rates aren't that bad either.


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org



20060125This posting was submitted with HTML in it

Mike, this was less about a response to your original email than it was an
attempt to cover myself in the wake of emails I got from Firms that I either
work through now, or have in the past that read my .02 posting here a few
days ago. They were wondering why I would make blanket statements about such
reputable businesses. I was doing more backpeddling than anything else.


Timothy Button
Remedy Systems Consultant
tbutton@remedyconsultant.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Mike McCourt
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:25 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Annoying Recruiters

Tim ... I went through the same dark days (however I believe mine were from
Feb 2002 - Nov 2002), where the the only remedy projects I could find were
those that paid $40/hour and they wanted me to pick up my own travel!

If you re-read my original email, I actaully said normally I'd be flattered,
but these folks are just plain ignorant about it ... how many times do I
have to turn down the same job before they quit calling!!!

Since posting this message, I've had two more emails from them that came in
which I've bounced(thank you spamware).

I also understand that these aren't remedy partners, I have working
relationships with 4 current Remedy/BMC partners, and each and everyone has
always conducted themselves as professionals ... this is a "fly-by-night"
firm that's just looking to staff a project and they're desperate. I'm
guessing they aren't offering enough money to get anyone to go work in
Madison in the dead of winter, and before all is said and done, they'll
probably want to have most of the development work done off-shore.

Mike


On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:34:45 -0600, Timothy Button
wrote:

>I want to clarify something else on this subject. During the dark days (Jan
>2001 through August 2001) most people got no calls for months on end.
People
>clamoring your your services is one of the best problems you can have.
>Somewhere, somebody who develops "Application X" is not getting called
while
>we are, so while the lack of information and decorum are annoying, how
would
>you feel when the phone never rang?
>
>Also, and I am not just saying this to backtrack; little or none of this
>behavior comes from actual BMC Partners. The culprits are the fly-by-night
>contract firms that pop up and disappear quickly.
>
>Timothy Button
>Remedy Systems Consultant
>tbutton@remedyconsultant.com
>
>
>
>
>
>From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
>[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of McKenzie, James J C-E LCMC
>HQISEC/L3
>Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:49 AM
>To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
>Subject: Re: Annoying Recruiters
>
>
>**
>
>Mike, Axton, et. al.:
>
>I agree. I got a call from an Indian (person from the country of India)
and
>I could not understand most of what he said and it took FOUR CALLS TO MY
>MOBILE PHONE before this individual got the idea that I was not interested
>in moving to Dallas Texas. I had stated that I would relocate on my
Monster
>resume. This means a permenant relocation where the company picks up my
>costs (and I do not plan on driving a U-Haul with my car on a dolly behind
>it.) I also received the barrage from the Madison, WI job. Looks like it
>is going to be a long day if they call again....
>
>James McKenzie
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
>[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Mike McCourt
>Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 8:24 PM
>To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
>Subject: OT: Annoying Recruiters
>
>
>All ... I know I can't be the only one that gets frustrated with this from
>time to time, but I just needed to vent, so please excuse my rant.
>
>I'm sure everyone that has a resume on Monster and even mentions the
>word "Remedy" in their resume has probably had someone contact them about
>these Remedy positions in Wisconsin, but enough is enough already.
>
>I've currently been contacted close to a dozen times already by various
>firms wanting to staff me into this position(s), and normally I would be
>flattered by this, but when certain IT solution companies (we'll call them
>Company X to project the rights of the ignorant) have every single
>recruiter call you, it starts to border on telemarketing. Now ... I can
>understand if a second recruiter for Company X accidentally contacts you,
>but when 4 different recruiters all call you, they're really not recruiters
>now are they ... they're more like college kids working through a
>computerized call list trying to sell you something.
>
>Now if what Company X has done so far isn't annoying enough, apparently
>their recruiters are still struggling with the English language (and it is
>their second language), since they don't understand phrases like "NO"
>and "I'M NOT INTERESTED", so they go ahead and email you the same job
>description that you've already seen on Monster and the ARS list.
>
>Now I'm sure someone is going to read this and wonder why anyone is
>complaining about people calling them, trying to give them work, and I'm
>not complaining about all recruiters, so please don't take this the wrong
>way, since most recruiters I deal with are very courteous professionals,
>but there are a couple of firms out there (one based in India and on in the
>UK that I've dealt with) that just don't understand the word NO ... and
>after you turn them down for the 15th time and asked to be removed from
>their calling database, I guess you do the only thing you can and blacklist
>their email domain from your mail server and get yourself an air horn for
>when they call you :)
>
>OK ... I've gotten this off my chest now, so those that were patient enough
>to read my email ... I thank you and hope you have a great weekend.
>
>Mike
>
>

>
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**

Mike and Tim:

I went through the same thing with the same company. They did not post a message here but went through Monster and probably Dice.com and scanned for Remedy. The first caller did not understand that I was neither available nor interested in the position. It took about twenty e-mail messages and about ten calls to my cellular phone before the message got through. This is not the situation I have encountered with reputable placement firms. It appears that the company is trying to 'low-ball' the contract with the client and the workers will be the one's that suffer when the company cannot meet the client's needs or they have to go over the original cost estimate. Reputiable firms also provide information, up front, on job requirements and what they will/will not do for you.

James McKenzie


-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Sent: 2/22/2006 6:24 AM
Subject: Re: Annoying Recruiters

Tim ... I went through the same dark days (however I believe mine were
from
Feb 2002 - Nov 2002), where the the only remedy projects I could find
were
those that paid $40/hour and they wanted me to pick up my own travel!

If you re-read my original email, I actaully said normally I'd be
flattered, but these folks are just plain ignorant about it ... how many

times do I have to turn down the same job before they quit calling!!!

Since posting this message, I've had two more emails from them that came
in
which I've bounced(thank you spamware).

I also understand that these aren't remedy partners, I have working
relationships with 4 current Remedy/BMC partners, and each and everyone
has
always conducted themselves as professionals ... this is a
"fly-by-night"
firm that's just looking to staff a project and they're desperate. I'm
guessing they aren't offering enough money to get anyone to go work in
Madison in the dead of winter, and before all is said and done, they'll
probably want to have most of the development work done off-shore.

Mike


On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 15:34:45 -0600, Timothy Button
wrote:

>I want to clarify something else on this subject. During the dark days
(Jan
>2001 through August 2001) most people got no calls for months on end.
People
>clamoring your your services is one of the best problems you can have.
>Somewhere, somebody who develops "Application X" is not getting called
while
>we are, so while the lack of information and decorum are annoying, how
would
>you feel when the phone never rang?
>
>Also, and I am not just saying this to backtrack; little or none of
this
>behavior comes from actual BMC Partners. The culprits are the
fly-by-night
>contract firms that pop up and disappear quickly.
>
>Timothy Button
>Remedy Systems Consultant
>tbutton@remedyconsultant.com
>
>
>
>
>
>From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
>[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of McKenzie, James J C-E LCMC
>HQISEC/L3
>Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:49 AM
>To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
>Subject: Re: Annoying Recruiters
>
>
>**
>
>Mike, Axton, et. al.:
>
>I agree. I got a call from an Indian (person from the country of
India)
and
>I could not understand most of what he said and it took FOUR CALLS TO
MY
>MOBILE PHONE before this individual got the idea that I was not
interested
>in moving to Dallas Texas. I had stated that I would relocate on my
Monster
>resume. This means a permenant relocation where the company picks up
my
>costs (and I do not plan on driving a U-Haul with my car on a dolly
behind
>it.) I also received the barrage from the Madison, WI job. Looks like
it
>is going to be a long day if they call again....
>
>James McKenzie
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
>[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Mike McCourt
>Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 8:24 PM
>To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
>Subject: OT: Annoying Recruiters
>
>
>All ... I know I can't be the only one that gets frustrated with this
from
>time to time, but I just needed to vent, so please excuse my rant.
>
>I'm sure everyone that has a resume on Monster and even mentions the
>word "Remedy" in their resume has probably had someone contact them
about
>these Remedy positions in Wisconsin, but enough is enough already.
>
>I've currently been contacted close to a dozen times already by various
>firms wanting to staff me into this position(s), and normally I would
be
>flattered by this, but when certain IT solution companies (we'll call
them
>Company X to project the rights of the ignorant) have every single
>recruiter call you, it starts to border on telemarketing. Now ... I can
>understand if a second recruiter for Company X accidentally contacts
you,
>but when 4 different recruiters all call you, they're really not
recruiters
>now are they ... they're more like college kids working through a
>computerized call list trying to sell you something.
>
>Now if what Company X has done so far isn't annoying enough, apparently
>their recruiters are still struggling with the English language (and it
is
>their second language), since they don't understand phrases like "NO"
>and "I'M NOT INTERESTED", so they go ahead and email you the same job
>description that you've already seen on Monster and the ARS list.
>
>Now I'm sure someone is going to read this and wonder why anyone is
>complaining about people calling them, trying to give them work, and
I'm
>not complaining about all recruiters, so please don't take this the
wrong
>way, since most recruiters I deal with are very courteous
professionals,
>but there are a couple of firms out there (one based in India and on in
the
>UK that I've dealt with) that just don't understand the word NO ... and
>after you turn them down for the 15th time and asked to be removed from
>their calling database, I guess you do the only thing you can and
blacklist
>their email domain from your mail server and get yourself an air horn
for
>when they call you :)
>
>OK ... I've gotten this off my chest now, so those that were patient
enough
>to read my email ... I thank you and hope you have a great weekend.
>
>Mike
>
>


>
>UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
>
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in
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>
>


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