I think that might be an option for me as the other "tutorials" are too
OTB for our organization. Of course as Brian mentioned there is always
the golf clubs.

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Thomas Bean
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 8:36 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005

I agree the tutorial selection is lacking... However, it was interesting
to see that in addition to the regular tutorials, they are now also
offering two-day "supplemental sessions". I'm particularly interested
in the ITIL Foundation Certification training. A little pricy at
$1,000, but it does include the certification exam. Might be worth
it... what do you guys think?

Thomas

----- Original Message -----
From:
Newsgroups: gmane.comp.crm.arsystem.general
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 16:32
Subject: Tutorials 2005


Hi, I've also been checking available tutorials this year, and there
seems to have been a change compared with earlier years, of course many
good ones for those using ITIL, and BMC products, but could they not
have put in some for all of us who just build our own applications with
ordinary workflow, Tips and Tricks, advanced ARS-Functions,
API-examples, OLE, Email Engine examples, LDAP-intregration ...Sure many
would have appreciated those kind of 3 h tutorials.

L ars



UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)


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(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

**
Well, I did get an e-mail from Lincoln Bowser at BMC who I guess is the person in charge of the tutorials.

His comment was:

This year's RUG is somewhat different that previous years, in that we are expanding the conference to encompass all of the Service Management products and solutions. As such, we were challenged with the task of aligning the pre-conference tutorials thematically to the general conference; hence, a reduction in the typical AR System-focused topics.

I proceeded to take some issue with that.

I would heartily encourage any like minded listers to let BMC know how you feel. As a community, I have found that we can have some considerable influence when we talk as one. Let 'em know how you feel.

Warren

On 4/22/05, Fong, Den wrote:
> I think that might be an option for me as the other "tutorials" are too
> OTB for our organization. Of course as Brian mentioned there is always
> the golf clubs.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Thomas Bean
> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 8:36 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005
>
> I agree the tutorial selection is lacking... However, it was interesting
> to see that in addition to the regular tutorials, they are now also
> offering two-day "supplemental sessions". I'm particularly interested
> in the ITIL Foundation Certification training. A little pricy at
> $1,000, but it does include the certification exam. Might be worth
> it... what do you guys think?
>
> Thomas
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> Newsgroups: gmane.comp.crm.arsystem.general
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 16:32
> Subject: Tutorials 2005
>
> Hi, I've also been checking available tutorials this year, and there
> seems to have been a change compared with earlier years, of course many
> good ones for those using ITIL, and BMC products, but could they not
> have put in some for all of us who just build our own applications with
> ordinary workflow, Tips and Tricks, advanced ARS-Functions,
> API-examples, OLE, Email Engine examples, LDAP-intregration ...Sure many
> would have appreciated those kind of 3 h tutorials.
>
> L ars
>
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my own.

This posting was submitted via the Web interface

**
Warren,

You make me want to double back on my own words. Which has offered me the enlightenment to better understand Susan's position. This is a User Group gathering for AR related items. So I can understand the feather-ruffling effect of reducing the amount of AR related items.

Brian

Warren Baltimore wrote:

**
Well, I did get an e-mail from Lincoln Bowser at BMC who I guess is the person in charge of the tutorials.

His comment was:

This year's RUG is somewhat different that previous years, in that we are expanding the conference to encompass all of the Service Management products and solutions. As such, we were challenged with the task of aligning the pre-conference tutorials thematically to the general conference; hence, a reduction in the typical AR System-focused topics.

I proceeded to take some issue with that.

I would heartily encourage any like minded listers to let BMC know how you feel. As a community, I have found that we can have some considerable influence when we talk as one. Let 'em know how you feel.

Warren

On 4/22/05, Fong, Den wrote:
> I think that might be an option for me as the other "tutorials" are too
> OTB for our organization. Of course as Brian mentioned there is always
> the golf clubs.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Thomas Bean
> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 8:36 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005
>
> I agree the tutorial selection is lacking... However, it was interesting
> to see that in addition to the regular tutorials, they are now also
> offering two-day "supplemental sessions". I'm particularly interested
> in the ITIL Foundation Certification training. A little pricy at
> $1,000, but it does include the certification exam. Might be worth
> it... what do you guys think?
>
> Thomas
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: >
> Newsgroups: gmane.comp.crm.arsystem.general
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 16:32
> Subject: Tutorials 2005
>
> Hi, I've also been checking available tutorials this year, and there
> seems to have been a change compared with earlier years, of course many
> good ones for those using ITIL, and BMC products, but could they not
> have put in some for all of us who just build our own applications with
> ordinary workflow, Tips and Tricks, advanced ARS-Functions,
> API-examples, OLE, Email Engine examples, LDAP-intregration ...Sure many
> would have appreciated those kind of 3 h tutorials.
>
> L ars
>
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my own.

This posting was submitted via the Web interface



Brian Goralczyk
Mobile 574-249-0018
Email: bdg0584@yahoo.com
Website: www.acegolfclubs.com

"If we let the opinions of others keep us from doing what we know is right,
than we have betrayed both ourselves as well as those we interact with"
This posting was submitted via the Web interface

**
Thanks Warren, I stand corrected, I thought it was similar to last year.

It makes no sense for them to decrease the number of Remedy related sessions.

Given the attendance in the tutorials they must be a net gain for BMC, at the very least break even,
therefore it would behoove them to find rooms and presenters for all the types of Remedy topics they
had last year, if not more.

Not only that, but it improves the value proposition for companies to send people to have tutorials attached
so it might increase the RUG attendance as well.

Let's hope the right people are paying attention.

... Daniel
ps. or do they want fewer Remedy people at the conference in relation
to the other products to make the others feel more welcome?

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Warren Baltimore
Sent: April 22, 2005 12:18
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005


**
Well, I did get an e-mail from Lincoln Bowser at BMC who I guess is the person in charge of the tutorials.

His comment was:

This year's RUG is somewhat different that previous years, in that we are expanding the conference to encompass all of the Service Management products and solutions. As such, we were challenged with the task of aligning the pre-conference tutorials thematically to the general conference; hence, a reduction in the typical AR System-focused topics.

I proceeded to take some issue with that.

I would heartily encourage any like minded listers to let BMC know how you feel. As a community, I have found that we can have some considerable influence when we talk as one. Let 'em know how you feel.

Warren



This posting was submitted via the Web interface

Hi, I've also been checking available tutorials this year, and there seems to have been a change compared with earlier years, of course many good ones for those using ITIL, and BMC products, but could they not have put in some for all of us who just build our own applications with ordinary workflow, Tips and Tricks, advanced ARS-Functions, API-examples, OLE, Email Engine examples, LDAP-intregration ...Sure many would have appreciated those kind of 3 h tutorials.

L ars


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

Geez,

I just looked at the list of tutorials, talk about SUCKING. They
stink of sales pitches. And there is nothing for anyone who as Lars
points out just develops there own apps!

HEY BMC/Remedy! You Listening?????

Get it together! Your missing the boat on this.

On 4/21/05, lars.j.pettersson@vattenfall.com
wrote:
> Hi, I've also been checking available tutorials this year, and there seems to have been a change compared with earlier years, of course many good ones for those using ITIL, and BMC products, but could they not have put in some for all of us who just build our own applications with ordinary workflow, Tips and Tricks, advanced ARS-Functions, API-examples, OLE, Email Engine examples, LDAP-intregration ...Sure many would have appreciated those kind of 3 h tutorials.
>
> L ars
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

And I got jumped on for not wanting change when I mentioned that deficiency !

Susan

On 4/21/05, Warren Baltimore wrote:
> Geez,
>
> I just looked at the list of tutorials, talk about SUCKING. They
> stink of sales pitches. And there is nothing for anyone who as Lars
> points out just develops there own apps!
>
> HEY BMC/Remedy! You Listening?????
>
> Get it together! Your missing the boat on this.
>
> On 4/21/05, lars.j.pettersson@vattenfall.com
> wrote:
> > Hi, I've also been checking available tutorials this year, and there seems to have been a change compared with earlier years, of course many good ones for those using ITIL, and BMC products, but could they not have put in some for all of us who just build our own applications with ordinary workflow, Tips and Tricks, advanced ARS-Functions, API-examples, OLE, Email Engine examples, LDAP-intregration ...Sure many would have appreciated those kind of 3 h tutorials.
> >
> > L ars
> >
> >
> > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> > (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
> >
>
> --
> Warren R. Baltimore II
> Remedy Developer
> UW Medicine IT Services
> School of Medicine
> University of Washington
> Box 358220
> 1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
> Seattle, WA 98101
> Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
> Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
> V: 206-543-7392
> F: 206-221-4745
>
> The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
> University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
> own.
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


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(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

Warren,

Geezzz I hate it when you sugar-coat things !!
Come no don't hold back... tell us what you really think ?

LOL

Don't forget the Evening with Engineering and of
course the Birds of a Feather, right Dan-o ?

R U Going anyway ?

Regards...Gidd

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Warren Baltimore
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 2:59 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005


Geez,

I just looked at the list of tutorials, talk about SUCKING. They
stink of sales pitches. And there is nothing for anyone who as Lars
points out just develops there own apps!

HEY BMC/Remedy! You Listening?????

Get it together! Your missing the boat on this.

On 4/21/05, lars.j.pettersson@vattenfall.com
wrote:
> Hi, I've also been checking available tutorials this year, and there seems
to have been a change compared with earlier years, of course many good ones
for those using ITIL, and BMC products, but could they not have put in some
for all of us who just build our own applications with ordinary workflow,
Tips and Tricks, advanced ARS-Functions, API-examples, OLE, Email Engine
examples, LDAP-intregration ...Sure many would have appreciated those kind
of 3 h tutorials.
>
> L ars
>
>


> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.



UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)


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(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

You think that's bad, you should see what I sent to Remedy........

Yes, I'm still going, but I'm bummed out about the tutorials. I don't
know if there is anything there that UW can use.....

Warren

On 4/21/05, Gidd Calden wrote:
> Warren,
>
> Geezzz I hate it when you sugar-coat things !!
> Come no don't hold back... tell us what you really think ?
>
> LOL
>
> Don't forget the Evening with Engineering and of
> course the Birds of a Feather, right Dan-o ?
>
> R U Going anyway ?
>
> Regards...Gidd
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Warren Baltimore
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 2:59 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005
>
> Geez,
>
> I just looked at the list of tutorials, talk about SUCKING. They
> stink of sales pitches. And there is nothing for anyone who as Lars
> points out just develops there own apps!
>
> HEY BMC/Remedy! You Listening?????
>
> Get it together! Your missing the boat on this.
>
> On 4/21/05, lars.j.pettersson@vattenfall.com
> wrote:
> > Hi, I've also been checking available tutorials this year, and there seems
> to have been a change compared with earlier years, of course many good ones
> for those using ITIL, and BMC products, but could they not have put in some
> for all of us who just build our own applications with ordinary workflow,
> Tips and Tricks, advanced ARS-Functions, API-examples, OLE, Email Engine
> examples, LDAP-intregration ...Sure many would have appreciated those kind
> of 3 h tutorials.
> >
> > L ars
> >
> >
>
>
> > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> > (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
> >
>
> --
> Warren R. Baltimore II
> Remedy Developer
> UW Medicine IT Services
> School of Medicine
> University of Washington
> Box 358220
> 1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
> Seattle, WA 98101
> Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
> Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
> V: 206-543-7392
> F: 206-221-4745
>
> The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
> University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
> own.
>
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

And you deserve an apology...

sorry....

;-)

Warren.

On 4/21/05, Susan Palmer wrote:
> And I got jumped on for not wanting change when I mentioned that deficiency !
>
> Susan
>
> On 4/21/05, Warren Baltimore wrote:
> > Geez,
> >
> > I just looked at the list of tutorials, talk about SUCKING. They
> > stink of sales pitches. And there is nothing for anyone who as Lars
> > points out just develops there own apps!
> >
> > HEY BMC/Remedy! You Listening?????
> >
> > Get it together! Your missing the boat on this.
> >
> > On 4/21/05, lars.j.pettersson@vattenfall.com
> > wrote:
> > > Hi, I've also been checking available tutorials this year, and there seems to have been a change compared with earlier years, of course many good ones for those using ITIL, and BMC products, but could they not have put in some for all of us who just build our own applications with ordinary workflow, Tips and Tricks, advanced ARS-Functions, API-examples, OLE, Email Engine examples, LDAP-intregration ...Sure many would have appreciated those kind of 3 h tutorials.
> > >
> > > L ars
> > >
> > >
> > > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> > > (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Warren R. Baltimore II
> > Remedy Developer
> > UW Medicine IT Services
> > School of Medicine
> > University of Washington
> > Box 358220
> > 1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
> > Seattle, WA 98101
> > Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
> > Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
> > V: 206-543-7392
> > F: 206-221-4745
> >
> > The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
> > University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
> > own.
> >
> >
> > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> > (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
> >
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.


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(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

Well okay, so they aren't meeting the needs of the many,
but how about the few or the one?

They seem more targetted to consultants than the average end client,
and towards using their stuff rather than roll your own.

(not that this struck me as any different to past years).

However, since they have introduced the Atrium,
let whoever has not targeted their marketting towards their own goals
cast the first stone :-)

... and as Gidd said, an evening with engineering,
and as Rick pointed out : Beer and Twinkies? at the same time?? yechhh,.
uhh, I mean yeah great. RUG2005 is a not miss,
make your own decisions about the tutorials.
[there is more than one of use to me].

So, in conclusion, RUG in General,yowzah,
the Tutorials: Mixed review.

... Daniel
ps. my pressing question is still: is Stan Hawkins showing up,
and has anyone purchased the EAF?

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Gidd Calden
Sent: April 21, 2005 18:40
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005


Warren,

Geezzz I hate it when you sugar-coat things !!
Come no don't hold back... tell us what you really think ?

LOL

Don't forget the Evening with Engineering and of
course the Birds of a Feather, right Dan-o ?

R U Going anyway ?

Regards...Gidd




UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

**
Susan,

If you are referring to me, I did not accurately portray my feelings. I didn't mean to come off harsh. (hmmm guilty conscience?) Just taht change is inevitable, and when BMC took over we all had to know more changes were coming. But it is better than the last company that claimed ownership (what was their name again??? I love brain dumps). And we should all be glad that a. there is still a remedy for us to love, and b. that there is still a rug for us to go to.

Brian

Susan Palmer wrote:

And I got jumped on for not wanting change when I mentioned that deficiency !

Susan

On 4/21/05, Warren Baltimore wrote:
> Geez,
>
> I just looked at the list of tutorials, talk about SUCKING. They
> stink of sales pitches. And there is nothing for anyone who as Lars
> points out just develops there own apps!
>
> HEY BMC/Remedy! You Listening?????
>
> Get it together! Your missing the boat on this.
>
> On 4/21/05, lars.j.pettersson@vattenfall.com
> wrote:
> > Hi, I've also been checking available tutorials this year, and there seems to have been a change compared with earlier years, of course many good ones for those using ITIL, and BMC products, but could they not have put in some for all of us who just build our own applications with ordinary workflow, Tips and Tricks, advanced ARS-Functions, API-examples, OLE, Email Engine examples, LDAP-intregration ...Sure many would have appreciated those kind of 3 h tutorials.
> >
> > L ars
> >
> >
> > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> > (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
> >
>
> --
> Warren R. Baltimore II
> Remedy Developer
> UW Medicine IT Services
> School of Medicine
> University of Washington
> Box 358220
> 1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
> Seattle, WA 98101
> Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
> Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
> V: 206-543-7392
> F: 206-221-4745
>
> The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
> University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
> own.
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


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(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)




Brian Goralczyk
Mobile 574-249-0018
Email: bdg0584@yahoo.com
Website: www.acegolfclubs.com

"If we let the opinions of others keep us from doing what we know is right,
than we have betrayed both ourselves as well as those we interact with"
This posting was submitted via the Web interface

I agree the tutorial selection is lacking... However, it was interesting to
see that in addition to the regular tutorials, they are now also offering
two-day "supplemental sessions". I'm particularly interested in the ITIL
Foundation Certification training. A little pricy at $1,000, but it does
include the certification exam. Might be worth it... what do you guys
think?

Thomas

----- Original Message -----
From:
Newsgroups: gmane.comp.crm.arsystem.general
Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 16:32
Subject: Tutorials 2005


Hi, I've also been checking available tutorials this year, and there seems
to have been a change compared with earlier years, of course many good ones
for those using ITIL, and BMC products, but could they not have put in some
for all of us who just build our own applications with ordinary workflow,
Tips and Tricks, advanced ARS-Functions, API-examples, OLE, Email Engine
examples, LDAP-intregration ...Sure many would have appreciated those kind
of 3 h tutorials.

L ars


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

**
"we were challenged with the task of aligning the pre-conference tutorials thematically to the general conference; hence, a reduction in the typical AR System-focused topics. "

Interesting comment from BMC. Now, RUG does still stand for Remedy User Group, correct? Even with BMC gobbling up so much of the Service Management market, being that it is a Remedy User Group, the focus should still stay towards AR System. (IMHO)

How many Magic customers would attend a Remedy User Group if they knew about the conference?
Does the BMC Software Forum conferences cover AR System Products? Maybe, but then again it is a "BMC Software" forum, and Remedy is BMC Software.

While there are some shops out there using Remedy in conjunction with other BMC Products, a vast majority of them are not.

This is beginning to sound like a big marketing conference to get Remedy customers to buy into other BMC products.
(Beginning to rethink, do I really want to go to RUG?)

Warren, if you can get me Lincoln's email address, I will definitely send an email to him (along with every other major contact I have at Remedy).

- Daniel

-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Baltimore [mailto:warrenbaltimore@GMAIL.COM]
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 12:18 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005


**
Well, I did get an e-mail from Lincoln Bowser at BMC who I guess is the person in charge of the tutorials.

His comment was:

This year's RUG is somewhat different that previous years, in that we are expanding the conference to encompass all of the Service Management products and solutions. As such, we were challenged with the task of aligning the pre-conference tutorials thematically to the general conference; hence, a reduction in the typical AR System-focused topics.

I proceeded to take some issue with that.

I would heartily encourage any like minded listers to let BMC know how you feel. As a community, I have found that we can have some considerable influence when we talk as one. Let 'em know how you feel.

Warren

On 4/22/05, Fong, Den > wrote:
> I think that might be an option for me as the other "tutorials" are too
> OTB for our organization. Of course as Brian mentioned there is always
> the golf clubs.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Thomas Bean
> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 8:36 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005
>
> I agree the tutorial selection is lacking... However, it was interesting
> to see that in addition to the regular tutorials, they are now also
> offering two-day "supplemental sessions". I'm particularly interested
> in the ITIL Foundation Certification training. A little pricy at
> $1,000, but it does include the certification exam. Might be worth
> it... what do you guys think?
>
> Thomas
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> Newsgroups: gmane.comp.crm.arsystem.general
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 16:32
> Subject: Tutorials 2005
>
> Hi, I've also been checking available tutorials this year, and there
> seems to have been a change compared with earlier years, of course many
> good ones for those using ITIL, and BMC products, but could they not
> have put in some for all of us who just build our own applications with
> ordinary workflow, Tips and Tricks, advanced ARS-Functions,
> API-examples, OLE, Email Engine examples, LDAP-intregration ...Sure many
> would have appreciated those kind of 3 h tutorials.
>
> L ars
>
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my own.

This posting was submitted via the Web interface





===================================================================
NOTICE - CONFIDENTIAL AND PRIVILEGED - This e-mail may contain
privileged and confidential information and is intended only for the
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please immediately notify the sender by return e-mail and delete the
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**
It will be difficult for me to justify the expense of attending the conference if there are not viable educational opportunities for me. I would think that with the new version 6.3 out there, there would be a great opportunity to have a mini PT&T Tutorial, Web Services, API and even integration tutorials. I think they have had PT&T at every RUG I have attended.

"What's new in XXXXX" isn't enough.

Claire



From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Daniel Hill
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 12:02 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005


**
"we were challenged with the task of aligning the pre-conference tutorials thematically to the general conference; hence, a reduction in the typical AR System-focused topics. "

Interesting comment from BMC. Now, RUG does still stand for Remedy User Group, correct? Even with BMC gobbling up so much of the Service Management market, being that it is a Remedy User Group, the focus should still stay towards AR System. (IMHO)

How many Magic customers would attend a Remedy User Group if they knew about the conference?
Does the BMC Software Forum conferences cover AR System Products? Maybe, but then again it is a "BMC Software" forum, and Remedy is BMC Software.

While there are some shops out there using Remedy in conjunction with other BMC Products, a vast majority of them are not.

This is beginning to sound like a big marketing conference to get Remedy customers to buy into other BMC products.
(Beginning to rethink, do I really want to go to RUG?)

Warren, if you can get me Lincoln's email address, I will definitely send an email to him (along with every other major contact I have at Remedy).

- Daniel

-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Baltimore [mailto:warrenbaltimore@GMAIL.COM]
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 12:18 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005


**
Well, I did get an e-mail from Lincoln Bowser at BMC who I guess is the person in charge of the tutorials.

His comment was:

This year's RUG is somewhat different that previous years, in that we are expanding the conference to encompass all of the Service Management products and solutions. As such, we were challenged with the task of aligning the pre-conference tutorials thematically to the general conference; hence, a reduction in the typical AR System-focused topics.

I proceeded to take some issue with that.

I would heartily encourage any like minded listers to let BMC know how you feel. As a community, I have found that we can have some considerable influence when we talk as one. Let 'em know how you feel.

Warren

On 4/22/05, Fong, Den > wrote:
> I think that might be an option for me as the other "tutorials" are too
> OTB for our organization. Of course as Brian mentioned there is always
> the golf clubs.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Thomas Bean
> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 8:36 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005
>
> I agree the tutorial selection is lacking... However, it was interesting
> to see that in addition to the regular tutorials, they are now also
> offering two-day "supplemental sessions". I'm particularly interested
> in the ITIL Foundation Certification training. A little pricy at
> $1,000, but it does include the certification exam. Might be worth
> it... what do you guys think?
>
> Thomas
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> Newsgroups: gmane.comp.crm.arsystem.general
> Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 16:32
> Subject: Tutorials 2005
>
> Hi, I've also been checking available tutorials this year, and there
> seems to have been a change compared with earlier years, of course many
> good ones for those using ITIL, and BMC products, but could they not
> have put in some for all of us who just build our own applications with
> ordinary workflow, Tips and Tricks, advanced ARS-Functions,
> API-examples, OLE, Email Engine examples, LDAP-intregration ...Sure many
> would have appreciated those kind of 3 h tutorials.
>
> L ars
>
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my own.

This posting was submitted via the Web interface




===================================================================
NOTICE - CONFIDENTIAL AND PRIVILEGED - This e-mail may contain
privileged and confidential information and is intended only for the
addressee named above. If you received this message in error,
please immediately notify the sender by return e-mail and delete the
original message; any distribution, copying or use of this e-mail
by you is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.

This posting was submitted via the Web interface
This posting was submitted via the Web interface

You know, I'm a pretty emotional guy at heart, and the more I think
about this, the more pissed off I am.

Just a few years ago, I attended the RUG in Orlando. It was a
dedicated RUG (last one in my opinion) and we PACKED that place. The
biggest complaint that I had with Peresuck (and I think it was shared
by many others) is that they forgot or didn't care that we as Remedy
customers existed. They figured it out only when it was WAY to late.

When BMC took over, I welcomed them. I still think that they seem to
have a pretty good idea of the direction that they should take Remedy
(and us with it), even though some of the recent decisions are a
little confusing and unnerving to me, I still feel pretty good about
them.

BUT

When they purchased Remedy from Peregroan, they made a big deal about
how Remedy would be left alone to continue supporting the sizeable
user population out there. Last Year in DC, we saw some influx of BMC
product marketing. (more than I wanted, but still to be expected)
now, I feel as if we are being swallowed hook line and sinker! And I
don't like it. I dont' give a damn about the rest of the SMBU at BMC.
I care about one thing (the strongest thing they have going IMHO) and
that is the ARSystem.

Anyone listening BMC????


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

The front RUG page does have this to say:

"
This year's conference will cover all of the BMC Service Management
solution offerings. With the addition of Magic, Marimba, and the
greater BMC family, this conference will offer something for everyone.
"

So... they are being direct about the intention.

The only real question is then.... should it still be a "Remedy User
Group"(RUG)? or a "BMC Service Management Solutions Offerings Group"
(BSMSO)?



I am sure that a good percentage of the past RUG attendees would agree
with this thought.

If the title of the event has "Remedy" in it, then the event should be
"Remedy" (Action Request System) centric. It would be fine if they
cover things like "How Magic, Marimba, and the greater BMC family"
products can better work with ARS, but if the point is that "Magic is
great" then that really belongs in a MUG (Magic User Group) not in a
RUG. :)

And quite frankly... (at the risk of starting a holey war.) [-- Yea I
mean "many holes"]
Remedy with Magic...
How could you sell both products to a single customer? If they buy
Remedy I really doubt they are going to want to use Magic for
anything. Are there any examples of how to use Magic WITH a Remedy
OTB/custom application?



Maybe they just do not want to lose the built in audience (this year)
to the RUG?
(
Maybe they feared changing the name this year?
Maybe they wanted to see if the market would stand the redirection
before they renamed/fully committed that brand?
)

--
Carey Matthew Black
Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP)
ARS = Action Request System(Remedy)

Solution = People + Process + Tools
Fast, Accurate, Cheap.... Pick two.
Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence.

http://www.fellowshipchurch.com

On 4/22/05, Brian Goralczyk wrote:
> **
> Warren,
>
> You make me want to double back on my own words. Which has offered me the
> enlightenment to better understand Susan's position. This is a User Group
> gathering for AR related items. So I can understand the feather-ruffling
> effect of reducing the amount of AR related items.
>
> Brian
>
>
> Warren Baltimore wrote:
> **
> Well, I did get an e-mail from Lincoln Bowser at BMC who I guess is the
> person in charge of the tutorials.
>
> His comment was:
>
> This year's RUG is somewhat different that previous years, in that we are
> expanding the conference to encompass all of the Service Management products
> and solutions. As such, we were challenged with the task of aligning the
> pre-conference tutorials thematically to the general conference; hence, a
> reduction in the typical AR System-focused topics.
>
> I proceeded to take some issue with that.
>
> I would heartily encourage any like minded listers to let BMC know how you
> feel. As a community, I have found that we can have some considerable
> influence when we talk as one. Let 'em know how you feel.
>
> Warren


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

To be blunt Rick.... I don't care.

I'm interested in one thing and one thing only. ARS, How to use it
better and how to get my money's worth out of it.

Warren

On 4/22/05, Rick Cook wrote:
> **
> Warren,
>
> I do understand and appreciate your points, but look at why BMC bought
> Remedy. Was it to add a piece to the BSM puzzle? Yes. Was it also to
> create another integration point (and therefore a sales point) for the BMC
> products? Absolutely. BMC is trying to use what is now their flagship
> product (Remedy) to help sales in their other products. I can't blame them
> too much for that, as long as they don't change the format or the focus of
> the conference too much.
>
> Rick
>
>
> From: Warren Baltimore
> Sent: Fri 4/22/2005 10:57 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005
>
> You know, I'm a pretty emotional guy at heart, and the more I think
about
> this, the more pissed off I am.

Just a few years ago, I attended the RUG in
> Orlando. It was a
dedicated RUG (last one in my opinion) and we PACKED that
> place. The
biggest complaint that I had with Peresuck (and I think it was
> shared
by many others) is that they forgot or didn't care that we as
> Remedy
customers existed. They figured it out only when it was WAY to
> late.

When BMC took over, I welcomed them. I still think that they seem
> to
have a pretty good idea of the direction that they should take
> Remedy
(and us with it), even though some of the recent decisions are
> a
little confusing and unnerving to me, I still feel pretty good
> about
them.

BUT

When they purchased Remedy from Peregroan, they made a big
> deal about
how Remedy would be left alone to continue supporting the
> sizeable
user population out there. Last Year in DC, we saw some influx of
> BMC
product marketing. (more than I wanted, but still to be expected)
now, I
> feel as if we are being swallowed hook line and sinker! And I
don't like it.
> I dont' give a damn about the rest of the SMBU at BMC.
I care about one
> thing (the strongest thing they have going IMHO) and
that is the
> ARSystem.

Anyone listening
> BMC????


UNSUBSCRIBE
> or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support:
> mailto:support@arslist.org)


> This posting was submitted
> via the Web interface


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

I will throw my 2 cents in. The National RUG is not inexpensive to attend.
Shouldn't we as the ones who pay to attend dictate the direction of these
events? Last I heard, your customer is the one you serve not the other way
around. Even if this was free it should still be about what the customer
wants not about what BMC wants to sell or promote. I agree that BMC has lost
sight of the original purpose of the RUG, to serve Remedy Customers period.
As stated earlier, a Remedy customer will never need Magic (In My Opinion).
That would be like buying a Ford Escort when you already own an H2 Hummer,
it just makes no sense. Unless your goal is to promote your other product
lines and you really are not focusing on serving your Remedy customers
directly.

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Susan Palmer
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 1:28 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005

This is more like the Remedy user population I remember, never shy,
never wanting to accept less than the best, and yes, even for change
implementors wanting some of the best features of the 'old' way !

We want meaningful tutorials that will challenge us to learn and
improve our own systems. We do NOT want sales presentations. We want
RUG, we want RUG, we want RUG !!!!!

Susan

RUG = REMEDY user group !!!!!




On 4/22/05, Warren Baltimore wrote:
> You know, I'm a pretty emotional guy at heart, and the more I think
> about this, the more pissed off I am.
>
> Just a few years ago, I attended the RUG in Orlando. It was a
> dedicated RUG (last one in my opinion) and we PACKED that place. The
> biggest complaint that I had with Peresuck (and I think it was shared
> by many others) is that they forgot or didn't care that we as Remedy
> customers existed. They figured it out only when it was WAY to late.
>
> When BMC took over, I welcomed them. I still think that they seem to
> have a pretty good idea of the direction that they should take Remedy
> (and us with it), even though some of the recent decisions are a
> little confusing and unnerving to me, I still feel pretty good about
> them.
>
> BUT
>
> When they purchased Remedy from Peregroan, they made a big deal about
> how Remedy would be left alone to continue supporting the sizeable
> user population out there. Last Year in DC, we saw some influx of BMC
> product marketing. (more than I wanted, but still to be expected)
> now, I feel as if we are being swallowed hook line and sinker! And I
> don't like it. I dont' give a damn about the rest of the SMBU at BMC.
> I care about one thing (the strongest thing they have going IMHO) and
> that is the ARSystem.
>
> Anyone listening BMC????
>
>


> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>



UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

**
There are some really great comments coming out of this discussion, and while I hope that BMC is listening, I would like to ensure that they get it.

Please start forwarding comments to BMC. Make sure that you are heard! Perhaps it's not to soon to get some direction change in this....

Warren


On 4/22/05, David Charters wrote:

I will throw my 2 cents in. The National RUG is not inexpensive to attend.
Shouldn't we as the ones who pay to attend dictate the direction of these
events? Last I heard, your customer is the one you serve not the other way
around. Even if this was free it should still be about what the customer
wants not about what BMC wants to sell or promote. I agree that BMC has lost
sight of the original purpose of the RUG, to serve Remedy Customers period.
As stated earlier, a Remedy customer will never need Magic (In My Opinion).
That would be like buying a Ford Escort when you already own an H2 Hummer,
it just makes no sense. Unless your goal is to promote your other product
lines and you really are not focusing on serving your Remedy customers
directly.

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Susan Palmer
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 1:28 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005

This is more like the Remedy user population I remember, never shy,
never wanting to accept less than the best, and yes, even for change
implementors wanting some of the best features of the 'old' way !

We want meaningful tutorials that will challenge us to learn and
improve our own systems. We do NOT want sales presentations. We want
RUG, we want RUG, we want RUG !!!!!

Susan

RUG = REMEDY user group !!!!!

On 4/22/05, Warren Baltimore wrote:
> You know, I'm a pretty emotional guy at heart, and the more I think
> about this, the more pissed off I am.
>
> Just a few years ago, I attended the RUG in Orlando. It was a
> dedicated RUG (last one in my opinion) and we PACKED that place. The
> biggest complaint that I had with Peresuck (and I think it was shared
> by many others) is that they forgot or didn't care that we as Remedy
> customers existed. They figured it out only when it was WAY to late.
>
> When BMC took over, I welcomed them. I still think that they seem to
> have a pretty good idea of the direction that they should take Remedy
> (and us with it), even though some of the recent decisions are a
> little confusing and unnerving to me, I still feel pretty good about
> them.
>
> BUT
>
> When they purchased Remedy from Peregroan, they made a big deal about
> how Remedy would be left alone to continue supporting the sizeable
> user population out there. Last Year in DC, we saw some influx of BMC
> product marketing. (more than I wanted, but still to be expected)
> now, I feel as if we are being swallowed hook line and sinker! And I
> don't like it. I dont' give a damn about the rest of the SMBU at BMC.
> I care about one thing (the strongest thing they have going IMHO) and
> that is the ARSystem.
>
> Anyone listening BMC????
>
>


> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>



UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)





--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my own. This posting was submitted via the Web interface

**
Hey, man, I have no problem with that. For what it's worth, I agree with you. Just trying to play devil's advocate.

As long as it's a technical conference and not a sales push, as long as the 90% focus is Remedy, and as long as someone FINALLY GETS THE MESSAGE TO TURN DOWN THE MUSIC DURING THE PARTY SO WE CAN HEAR EACH OTHER TALK, I'll be happy.

Rick



From: Warren Baltimore
Sent: Fri 4/22/2005 12:34 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005


To be blunt Rick.... I don't care.

I'm interested in one thing and one thing only. ARS, How to use it
better and how to get my money's worth out of it.

Warren

On 4/22/05, Rick Cook wrote:
> **
> Warren,
>
> I do understand and appreciate your points, but look at why BMC bought
> Remedy. Was it to add a piece to the BSM puzzle? Yes. Was it also to
> create another integration point (and therefore a sales point) for the BMC
> products? Absolutely. BMC is trying to use what is now their flagship
> product (Remedy) to help sales in their other products. I can't blame them
> too much for that, as long as they don't change the format or the focus of
> the conference too much.
>
> Rick
>
>
> From: Warren Baltimore
> Sent: Fri 4/22/2005 10:57 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005
>
> You know, I'm a pretty emotional guy at heart, and the more I think
about
> this, the more pissed off I am.

Just a few years ago, I attended the RUG in
> Orlando. It was a
dedicated RUG (last one in my opinion) and we PACKED that
> place. The
biggest complaint that I had with Peresuck (and I think it was
> shared
by many others) is that they forgot or didn't care that we as
> Remedy
customers existed. They figured it out only when it was WAY to
> late.

When BMC took over, I welcomed them. I still think that they seem
> to
have a pretty good idea of the direction that they should take
> Remedy
(and us with it), even though some of the recent decisions are
> a
little confusing and unnerving to me, I still feel pretty good
> about
them.

BUT

When they purchased Remedy from Peregroan, they made a big
> deal about
how Remedy would be left alone to continue supporting the
> sizeable
user population out there. Last Year in DC, we saw some influx of
> BMC
product marketing. (more than I wanted, but still to be expected)
now, I
> feel as if we are being swallowed hook line and sinker! And I
don't like it.
> I dont' give a damn about the rest of the SMBU at BMC.
I care about one
> thing (the strongest thing they have going IMHO) and
that is the
> ARSystem.

Anyone listening
> BMC????


UNSUBSCRIBE
> or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support:
> mailto:support@arslist.org)


> This posting was submitted
> via the Web interface


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)


This posting was submitted via the Web interface

HAHAHAHA

I forgot about that....

Yeah, some of us lost our hearing at some long forgotten WHO concert.
Could you please Turn down the freakin music!!!!

Warren

On 4/22/05, Rick Cook wrote:
> **
>
> Hey, man, I have no problem with that. For what it's worth, I agree with you. Just trying to play devil's advocate.
>
> As long as it's a technical conference and not a sales push, as long as the 90% focus is Remedy, and as long as someone FINALLY GETS THE MESSAGE TO TURN DOWN THE MUSIC DURING THE PARTY SO WE CAN HEAR EACH OTHER TALK, I'll be happy.
>
> Rick
>
>
From: Warren Baltimore
> Sent: Fri 4/22/2005 12:34 PM
>
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005
>
>
>
> To be blunt Rick.... I don't care.

I'm interested in one thing and one thing only. ARS, How to use it
better and how to get my money's worth out of it.

Warren

On 4/22/05, Rick Cook wrote:
> **
> Warren,
>
> I do understand and appreciate your points, but look at why BMC bought
> Remedy. Was it to add a piece to the BSM puzzle? Yes. Was it also to
> create another integration point (and therefore a sales point) for the BMC
> products? Absolutely. BMC is trying to use what is now their flagship
> product (Remedy) to help sales in their other products. I can't blame them
> too much for that, as long as they don't change the format or the focus of
> the conference too much.
>
> Rick
>
>
> From: Warren Baltimore
> Sent: Fri 4/22/2005 10:57 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005
>
> You know, I'm a pretty emotional guy at heart, and the more I think
about
> this, the more pissed off I am.

Just a few years ago, I attended the RUG in
> Orlando. It was a
dedicated RUG (last one in my opinion) and we PACKED that
> place. The
biggest complaint that I had with Peresuck (and I think it was
> shared
by many others) is that they forgot or didn't care that we as
> Remedy
customers existed. They figured it out only when it was WAY to
> late.

When BMC took over, I welcomed them. I still think that they seem
> to
have a pretty good idea of the direction that they should take
> Remedy
(and us with it), even though some of the recent decisions are
> a
little confusing and unnerving to me, I still feel pretty good
> about
them.

BUT

When they purchased Remedy from Peregroan, they made a big
> deal about
how Remedy would be left alone to continue supporting the
> sizeable
user population out there. Last Year in DC, we saw some influx of
> BMC
product marketing. (more than I wanted, but still to be expected)
now, I
> feel as if we are being swallowed hook line and sinker! And I
don't like it.
> I dont' give a damn about the rest of the SMBU at BMC.
I care about one
> thing (the strongest thing they have going IMHO) and
that is the
> ARSystem.

Anyone listening
> BMC????


UNSUBSCRIBE
> or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support:
> mailto:support@arslist.org)


> This posting was submitted
> via the Web interface


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)


> This posting was submitted via the Web interface



--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

**
I was talking about that very subject with Doug one day, and he said that he tells them every year that this is a place where we want to talk to each other, and that the "Party" music needs to be at a volume that allows that. But do they listen to him? Nooooooo....

Rick



From: Warren Baltimore
Sent: Fri 4/22/2005 1:25 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005


HAHAHAHA

I forgot about that....

Yeah, some of us lost our hearing at some long forgotten WHO concert.
Could you please Turn down the freakin music!!!!

Warren

On 4/22/05, Rick Cook wrote:
> **
>
> Hey, man, I have no problem with that. For what it's worth, I agree with you. Just trying to play devil's advocate.
>
> As long as it's a technical conference and not a sales push, as long as the 90% focus is Remedy, and as long as someone FINALLY GETS THE MESSAGE TO TURN DOWN THE MUSIC DURING THE PARTY SO WE CAN HEAR EACH OTHER TALK, I'll be happy.
>
> Rick
>
>
From: Warren Baltimore
> Sent: Fri 4/22/2005 12:34 PM
>
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005
>
>
>
> To be blunt Rick.... I don't care.

I'm interested in one thing and one thing only. ARS, How to use it
better and how to get my money's worth out of it.

Warren

On 4/22/05, Rick Cook wrote:
> **
> Warren,
>
> I do understand and appreciate your points, but look at why BMC bought
> Remedy. Was it to add a piece to the BSM puzzle? Yes. Was it also to
> create another integration point (and therefore a sales point) for the BMC
> products? Absolutely. BMC is trying to use what is now their flagship
> product (Remedy) to help sales in their other products. I can't blame them
> too much for that, as long as they don't change the format or the focus of
> the conference too much.
>
> Rick
>
>
> From: Warren Baltimore
> Sent: Fri 4/22/2005 10:57 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005
>
> You know, I'm a pretty emotional guy at heart, and the more I think
about
> this, the more pissed off I am.

Just a few years ago, I attended the RUG in
> Orlando. It was a
dedicated RUG (last one in my opinion) and we PACKED that
> place. The
biggest complaint that I had with Peresuck (and I think it was
> shared
by many others) is that they forgot or didn't care that we as
> Remedy
customers existed. They figured it out only when it was WAY to
> late.

When BMC took over, I welcomed them. I still think that they seem
> to
have a pretty good idea of the direction that they should take
> Remedy
(and us with it), even though some of the recent decisions are
> a
little confusing and unnerving to me, I still feel pretty good
> about
them.

BUT

When they purchased Remedy from Peregroan, they made a big
> deal about
how Remedy would be left alone to continue supporting the
> sizeable
user population out there. Last Year in DC, we saw some influx of
> BMC
product marketing. (more than I wanted, but still to be expected)
now, I
> feel as if we are being swallowed hook line and sinker! And I
don't like it.
> I dont' give a damn about the rest of the SMBU at BMC.
I care about one
> thing (the strongest thing they have going IMHO) and
that is the
> ARSystem.

Anyone listening
> BMC????


UNSUBSCRIBE
> or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support:
> mailto:support@arslist.org)


> This posting was submitted
> via the Web interface


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)


> This posting was submitted via the Web interface



--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)


This posting was submitted via the Web interface

I must say that if the direction of the pre-conference tutuorials are
anything to go by from a 'session' perspective I may well just tell my
boss that I don't want to attend... The potential for some good
tutorials, like those over past years, was one of my key
justifications for attendance.

Considering I'd be coming from the UK for the week I needed a good
justification, now some of the potential value of my attendance has
gone there is nothing in the pre-conference tutorials that I can see
to interest me, I was as Claire was, hoping that there maybe some PT&T
or integration sessions, particularly on WebServices etc etc...

Oh well another year where I can't attend RUG :-(

Stephen

On 4/22/05, Rick Cook wrote:
> **
> Hey, man, I have no problem with that. For what it's worth, I agree with
> you. Just trying to play devil's advocate.
>
> As long as it's a technical conference and not a sales push, as long as the
> 90% focus is Remedy, and as long as someone FINALLY GETS THE MESSAGE TO TURN
> DOWN THE MUSIC DURING THE PARTY SO WE CAN HEAR EACH OTHER TALK, I'll be
> happy.
>
> Rick
>
>
> From: Warren Baltimore
> Sent: Fri 4/22/2005 12:34 PM
>
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005
>
>
> To be blunt Rick.... I don't care.
>
> I'm interested in one thing and one thing only. ARS, How to use it
> better and how to get my money's worth out of it.
>
> Warren
>
> On 4/22/05, Rick Cook wrote:
> > **
> > Warren,
> >
> > I do understand and appreciate your points, but look at why BMC bought
> > Remedy. Was it to add a piece to the BSM puzzle? Yes. Was it also to
> > create another integration point (and therefore a sales point) for the BMC
> > products? Absolutely. BMC is trying to use what is now their flagship
> > product (Remedy) to help sales in their other products. I can't blame them
> > too much for that, as long as they don't change the format or the focus of
> > the conference too much.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> > From: Warren Baltimore
> > Sent: Fri 4/22/2005 10:57 AM
> > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> > Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005
> >
> > You know, I'm a pretty emotional guy at heart, and the more I think
> about
> > this, the more pissed off I am.
>
> Just a few years ago, I attended the RUG in
> > Orlando. It was a
> dedicated RUG (last one in my opinion) and we PACKED that
> > place. The
> biggest complaint that I had with Peresuck (and I think it was
> > shared
> by many others) is that they forgot or didn't care that we as
> > Remedy
> customers existed. They figured it out only when it was WAY to
> > late.
>
> When BMC took over, I welcomed them. I still think that they seem
> > to
> have a pretty good idea of the direction that they should take
> > Remedy
> (and us with it), even though some of the recent decisions are
> > a
> little confusing and unnerving to me, I still feel pretty good
> > about
> them.
>
> BUT
>
> When they purchased Remedy from Peregroan, they made a big
> > deal about
> how Remedy would be left alone to continue supporting the
> > sizeable
> user population out there. Last Year in DC, we saw some influx of
> > BMC
> product marketing. (more than I wanted, but still to be expected)
> now, I
> > feel as if we are being swallowed hook line and sinker! And I
> don't like it.
> > I dont' give a damn about the rest of the SMBU at BMC.
> I care about one
> > thing (the strongest thing they have going IMHO) and
> that is the
> > ARSystem.
>
> Anyone listening
> > BMC????
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE
> > or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support:
> > mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
>
> > This posting was submitted
> > via the Web interface
>
>
> --
> Warren R. Baltimore II
> Remedy Developer
> UW Medicine IT Services
> School of Medicine
> University of Washington
> Box 358220
> 1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
> Seattle, WA 98101
> Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
> Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
> V: 206-543-7392
> F: 206-221-4745
>
> The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
> University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
> own.
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
>
>
> This posting was submitted
> via the Web interface


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

Warren,

Tell us how you really feel. I must admit that I was more then a little concerned last year with the influx of other BMC product into our forum. Now it looks as though there are going to me more. While I don't like it I am not sure there is anything we are going to be able to do, short of not going. BMC has multiple products that they need to support and market. It is not like Remedy Corp. who only had one application. I don't know if BMC used to have a national user group meeting before the bought Remedy but my guess is they did not. They are obviously going to take advantage of the Remedy community to pitch their other products.

I will see what exactly they do this year before I make a decision about future R(B)UG's. Maybe if BMC gets enough complaints they will figure out a way to support two user group meetings, one RUG and one BUG. We can only see what happens.

Roger A. Nall
T-Mobile USA
OSSNMS Remedy Administrator/Developer
Desk -973-644-3963
PCS-973-652-6723
Fax -973-490-3296

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 1:57 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005

You know, I'm a pretty emotional guy at heart, and the more I think
about this, the more pissed off I am.

Just a few years ago, I attended the RUG in Orlando. It was a
dedicated RUG (last one in my opinion) and we PACKED that place. The
biggest complaint that I had with Peresuck (and I think it was shared
by many others) is that they forgot or didn't care that we as Remedy
customers existed. They figured it out only when it was WAY to late.

When BMC took over, I welcomed them. I still think that they seem to
have a pretty good idea of the direction that they should take Remedy
(and us with it), even though some of the recent decisions are a
little confusing and unnerving to me, I still feel pretty good about
them.

BUT

When they purchased Remedy from Peregroan, they made a big deal about
how Remedy would be left alone to continue supporting the sizeable
user population out there. Last Year in DC, we saw some influx of BMC
product marketing. (more than I wanted, but still to be expected)
now, I feel as if we are being swallowed hook line and sinker! And I
don't like it. I dont' give a damn about the rest of the SMBU at BMC.
I care about one thing (the strongest thing they have going IMHO) and
that is the ARSystem.

Anyone listening BMC????


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

Roger,

BMC is a business. And if they believe that they are losing the
support of an important customer base (remember what happened recently
with the re-org) they are likely to respond to it. We are not
powerless in a market. If we do not make our needs felt, then we can
not expect change (or in this case less change).

Warren

On 4/22/05, Nall, Roger wrote:
> Warren,
>
> Tell us how you really feel. I must admit that I was more then a little concerned last year with the influx of other BMC product into our forum. Now it looks as though there are going to me more. While I don't like it I am not sure there is anything we are going to be able to do, short of not going. BMC has multiple products that they need to support and market. It is not like Remedy Corp. who only had one application. I don't know if BMC used to have a national user group meeting before the bought Remedy but my guess is they did not. They are obviously going to take advantage of the Remedy community to pitch their other products.
>
> I will see what exactly they do this year before I make a decision about future R(B)UG's. Maybe if BMC gets enough complaints they will figure out a way to support two user group meetings, one RUG and one BUG. We can only see what happens.
>
> Roger A. Nall
> T-Mobile USA
> OSSNMS Remedy Administrator/Developer
> Desk -973-644-3963
> PCS-973-652-6723
> Fax -973-490-3296
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]
> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 1:57 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005
>
> You know, I'm a pretty emotional guy at heart, and the more I think
> about this, the more pissed off I am.
>
> Just a few years ago, I attended the RUG in Orlando. It was a
> dedicated RUG (last one in my opinion) and we PACKED that place. The
> biggest complaint that I had with Peresuck (and I think it was shared
> by many others) is that they forgot or didn't care that we as Remedy
> customers existed. They figured it out only when it was WAY to late.
>
> When BMC took over, I welcomed them. I still think that they seem to
> have a pretty good idea of the direction that they should take Remedy
> (and us with it), even though some of the recent decisions are a
> little confusing and unnerving to me, I still feel pretty good about
> them.
>
> BUT
>
> When they purchased Remedy from Peregroan, they made a big deal about
> how Remedy would be left alone to continue supporting the sizeable
> user population out there. Last Year in DC, we saw some influx of BMC
> product marketing. (more than I wanted, but still to be expected)
> now, I feel as if we are being swallowed hook line and sinker! And I
> don't like it. I dont' give a damn about the rest of the SMBU at BMC.
> I care about one thing (the strongest thing they have going IMHO) and
> that is the ARSystem.
>
> Anyone listening BMC????
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

All,
Here's a novel approach to the situation: If you don't like it, don't go. If
enough people stop attending then there will be no more RUGs and nothing to
complain about.

If you want what YOU want, then host the damn thing yourself. I've never
read anywhere in the Remedy licensing agreement that you are entitled to a
RUG and that said RUG should be run YOUR way. If you don't like the
tutorials, don't sign up for them. If you don't like the conference this
year, don't go to next year's.

This attitude of "entitlement" just because you are a Remedy/BMC customer is
beyond me. If it weren't for BMC there would be NO Remedy today. While there
is no way of knowing absolutely if that is a true statement, I believe it is
pretty much on the mark. So, blame BMC for ruining your precious RUG, but
also thank them for saving Remedy.

By the way, I fully intend to attend RUG this year for the first time since
2000. Not that I stayed away by choice, but just never had the opportunity.
I, for one, am looking forward to at least the opportunity to have a look at
BMC products because I know that there are many, many Remedy customers out
there looking to integrate their out of the box Remedy products with BMC
products.

If you don't like the tutorials, then don't sign up for them. If you don't
like the conference, don't go. If you think it costs too much money, then
don't pay for it.

Lastly, I'm not sure that the true benefit of RUG is what Remedy/BMC offers
here anyway. I think the true benefit is meeting other people in the Remedy
community, finding out what they are doing and how they are doing, putting
faces to names and maybe even making a friend or two (which I am sure I am
doing with this post).

Just my .02.

Scott Parrish
Remedy Skilled Professional


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
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Scott,

That is the most ridiculous statement I've heard yet. My (and others)
sense of entitlement is BECAUSE we are Remedy customers. I've Paid my
money and I expect to be heard. I don't believe anyone here (at least
not that I've heard) has suggested that there is no place for the
other BMC info....Just not at the expense of what has been a very
important and helpful aspect of RUG up to this time.

If you are content with the direction that BMC is going. That's
great. You too are a customer and are entitled to your opinion. But,
there is nothing wrong with expressing an opinion that BMC has made a
mistake. And as I said earlier, expressing it to BMC directly (which
I have). As to hosting the "DAMN" thing myself. Again, I've paid my
money, and will again to go to the "damn" thing, and if I don't like
the lack of useful information for me at the "damn" tutorials, then
you can "damn" well bet that I'm going to voice it. And again, not
just in the list, but also with BMC directly.

As to the OTB products. No one has suggested that there should be no
tutorials in regards to them, only that it should not be at the
expense of those who do not use the OTB products.

Sorry, if this or any previous post has ruffled your feathers, but oh well....

Warren

On 4/22/05, Scott Parrish wrote:
> All,
> Here's a novel approach to the situation: If you don't like it, don't go. If
> enough people stop attending then there will be no more RUGs and nothing to
> complain about.
>
> If you want what YOU want, then host the damn thing yourself. I've never
> read anywhere in the Remedy licensing agreement that you are entitled to a
> RUG and that said RUG should be run YOUR way. If you don't like the
> tutorials, don't sign up for them. If you don't like the conference this
> year, don't go to next year's.
>
> This attitude of "entitlement" just because you are a Remedy/BMC customer is
> beyond me. If it weren't for BMC there would be NO Remedy today. While there
> is no way of knowing absolutely if that is a true statement, I believe it is
> pretty much on the mark. So, blame BMC for ruining your precious RUG, but
> also thank them for saving Remedy.
>
> By the way, I fully intend to attend RUG this year for the first time since
> 2000. Not that I stayed away by choice, but just never had the opportunity.
> I, for one, am looking forward to at least the opportunity to have a look at
> BMC products because I know that there are many, many Remedy customers out
> there looking to integrate their out of the box Remedy products with BMC
> products.
>
> If you don't like the tutorials, then don't sign up for them. If you don't
> like the conference, don't go. If you think it costs too much money, then
> don't pay for it.
>
> Lastly, I'm not sure that the true benefit of RUG is what Remedy/BMC offers
> here anyway. I think the true benefit is meeting other people in the Remedy
> community, finding out what they are doing and how they are doing, putting
> faces to names and maybe even making a friend or two (which I am sure I am
> doing with this post).
>
> Just my .02.
>
> Scott Parrish
> Remedy Skilled Professional
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

Okay my big fear is what the main presentations are going to be like,
right now by the looks of it the tutorials the main presentations are
for 'the greater BMC family'. It might be better to go to some admin
course instead.

Especially if you're a first time rugger like me.

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Carey Matthew Black
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 12:11 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005

The front RUG page does have this to say:

"
This year's conference will cover all of the BMC Service Management
solution offerings. With the addition of Magic, Marimba, and the greater
BMC family, this conference will offer something for everyone.
"

So... they are being direct about the intention.

The only real question is then.... should it still be a "Remedy User
Group"(RUG)? or a "BMC Service Management Solutions Offerings Group"
(BSMSO)?



I am sure that a good percentage of the past RUG attendees would agree
with this thought.

If the title of the event has "Remedy" in it, then the event should be
"Remedy" (Action Request System) centric. It would be fine if they cover
things like "How Magic, Marimba, and the greater BMC family"
products can better work with ARS, but if the point is that "Magic is
great" then that really belongs in a MUG (Magic User Group) not in a
RUG. :)

And quite frankly... (at the risk of starting a holey war.) [-- Yea I
mean "many holes"] Remedy with Magic...
How could you sell both products to a single customer? If they buy
Remedy I really doubt they are going to want to use Magic for anything.
Are there any examples of how to use Magic WITH a Remedy OTB/custom
application?



Maybe they just do not want to lose the built in audience (this year) to
the RUG?
(
Maybe they feared changing the name this year?
Maybe they wanted to see if the market would stand the redirection
before they renamed/fully committed that brand?
)

--
Carey Matthew Black
Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP)
ARS = Action Request System(Remedy)

Solution = People + Process + Tools
Fast, Accurate, Cheap.... Pick two.
Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence.

http://www.fellowshipchurch.com

On 4/22/05, Brian Goralczyk wrote:
> **
> Warren,
>
> You make me want to double back on my own words. Which has offered me

> the enlightenment to better understand Susan's position. This is a
> User Group gathering for AR related items. So I can understand the
> feather-ruffling effect of reducing the amount of AR related items.
>
> Brian
>
>
> Warren Baltimore wrote:
> **
> Well, I did get an e-mail from Lincoln Bowser at BMC who I guess is
> the person in charge of the tutorials.
>
> His comment was:
>
> This year's RUG is somewhat different that previous years, in that we
> are expanding the conference to encompass all of the Service
> Management products and solutions. As such, we were challenged with
> the task of aligning the pre-conference tutorials thematically to the
> general conference; hence, a reduction in the typical AR
System-focused topics.
>
> I proceeded to take some issue with that.
>
> I would heartily encourage any like minded listers to let BMC know how

> you feel. As a community, I have found that we can have some
> considerable influence when we talk as one. Let 'em know how you
feel.
>
> Warren



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**
Go Doug Go.. I agree Totally.. It has been horrible in years past.. Way to Loud... you have to yell at the person across the table..
And I was in the Back.. Sad.. I think if someone like "Doug" has alot of experience then you listen to them... I sure hope they do this year...



From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Rick Cook
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 4:37 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005


**
I was talking about that very subject with Doug one day, and he said that he tells them every year that this is a place where we want to talk to each other, and that the "Party" music needs to be at a volume that allows that. But do they listen to him? Nooooooo....

Rick



From: Warren Baltimore
Sent: Fri 4/22/2005 1:25 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005


HAHAHAHA

I forgot about that....

Yeah, some of us lost our hearing at some long forgotten WHO concert.
Could you please Turn down the freakin music!!!!

Warren

On 4/22/05, Rick Cook wrote:
> **
>
> Hey, man, I have no problem with that. For what it's worth, I agree with you. Just trying to play devil's advocate.
>
> As long as it's a technical conference and not a sales push, as long as the 90% focus is Remedy, and as long as someone FINALLY GETS THE MESSAGE TO TURN DOWN THE MUSIC DURING THE PARTY SO WE CAN HEAR EACH OTHER TALK, I'll be happy.
>
> Rick
>
>
From: Warren Baltimore
> Sent: Fri 4/22/2005 12:34 PM
>
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005
>
>
>
> To be blunt Rick.... I don't care.

I'm interested in one thing and one thing only. ARS, How to use it
better and how to get my money's worth out of it.

Warren

On 4/22/05, Rick Cook wrote:
> **
> Warren,
>
> I do understand and appreciate your points, but look at why BMC bought
> Remedy. Was it to add a piece to the BSM puzzle? Yes. Was it also to
> create another integration point (and therefore a sales point) for the BMC
> products? Absolutely. BMC is trying to use what is now their flagship
> product (Remedy) to help sales in their other products. I can't blame them
> too much for that, as long as they don't change the format or the focus of
> the conference too much.
>
> Rick
>
>
> From: Warren Baltimore
> Sent: Fri 4/22/2005 10:57 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005
>
> You know, I'm a pretty emotional guy at heart, and the more I think
about
> this, the more pissed off I am.

Just a few years ago, I attended the RUG in
> Orlando. It was a
dedicated RUG (last one in my opinion) and we PACKED that
> place. The
biggest complaint that I had with Peresuck (and I think it was
> shared
by many others) is that they forgot or didn't care that we as
> Remedy
customers existed. They figured it out only when it was WAY to
> late.

When BMC took over, I welcomed them. I still think that they seem
> to
have a pretty good idea of the direction that they should take
> Remedy
(and us with it), even though some of the recent decisions are
> a
little confusing and unnerving to me, I still feel pretty good
> about
them.

BUT

When they purchased Remedy from Peregroan, they made a big
> deal about
how Remedy would be left alone to continue supporting the
> sizeable
user population out there. Last Year in DC, we saw some influx of
> BMC
product marketing. (more than I wanted, but still to be expected)
now, I
> feel as if we are being swallowed hook line and sinker! And I
don't like it.
> I dont' give a damn about the rest of the SMBU at BMC.
I care about one
> thing (the strongest thing they have going IMHO) and
that is the
> ARSystem.

Anyone listening
> BMC????


UNSUBSCRIBE
> or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support:
> mailto:support@arslist.org)


> This posting was submitted
> via the Web interface


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)


> This posting was submitted via the Web interface



--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)


This posting was submitted via the Web interface
This posting was submitted via the Web interface

**
Warren,

I do understand and appreciate your points, but look at why BMC bought Remedy. Was it to add a piece to the BSM puzzle? Yes. Was it also to create another integration point (and therefore a sales point) for the BMC products? Absolutely. BMC is trying to use what is now their flagship product (Remedy) to help sales in their other products. I can't blame them too much for that, as long as they don't change the format or the focus of the conference too much.

Rick



From: Warren Baltimore
Sent: Fri 4/22/2005 10:57 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005


You know, I'm a pretty emotional guy at heart, and the more I think
about this, the more pissed off I am.

Just a few years ago, I attended the RUG in Orlando. It was a
dedicated RUG (last one in my opinion) and we PACKED that place. The
biggest complaint that I had with Peresuck (and I think it was shared
by many others) is that they forgot or didn't care that we as Remedy
customers existed. They figured it out only when it was WAY to late.

When BMC took over, I welcomed them. I still think that they seem to
have a pretty good idea of the direction that they should take Remedy
(and us with it), even though some of the recent decisions are a
little confusing and unnerving to me, I still feel pretty good about
them.

BUT

When they purchased Remedy from Peregroan, they made a big deal about
how Remedy would be left alone to continue supporting the sizeable
user population out there. Last Year in DC, we saw some influx of BMC
product marketing. (more than I wanted, but still to be expected)
now, I feel as if we are being swallowed hook line and sinker! And I
don't like it. I dont' give a damn about the rest of the SMBU at BMC.
I care about one thing (the strongest thing they have going IMHO) and
that is the ARSystem.

Anyone listening BMC????


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)


This posting was submitted via the Web interface

**
Another tack on this, if I can avoid Warren's not-yet-alcohol-fueled response (though it is getting closer to beer-thirty out here) ;-), is that if the other products are things that I as a consultant will be asked about, I look forward to learning a bit about those products. Again, I think we all want the option to have plenty of Remedy stuff to do while ignoring those other apps, but I don't intend to completely do so.

Rick



From: Nall, Roger
Sent: Fri 4/22/2005 1:49 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005


Warren,

Tell us how you really feel. I must admit that I was more then a little concerned last year with the influx of other BMC product into our forum. Now it looks as though there are going to me more. While I don't like it I am not sure there is anything we are going to be able to do, short of not going. BMC has multiple products that they need to support and market. It is not like Remedy Corp. who only had one application. I don't know if BMC used to have a national user group meeting before the bought Remedy but my guess is they did not. They are obviously going to take advantage of the Remedy community to pitch their other products.

I will see what exactly they do this year before I make a decision about future R(B)UG's. Maybe if BMC gets enough complaints they will figure out a way to support two user group meetings, one RUG and one BUG. We can only see what happens.

Roger A. Nall
T-Mobile USA
OSSNMS Remedy Administrator/Developer
Desk -973-644-3963
PCS-973-652-6723
Fax -973-490-3296

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 1:57 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005

You know, I'm a pretty emotional guy at heart, and the more I think
about this, the more pissed off I am.

Just a few years ago, I attended the RUG in Orlando. It was a
dedicated RUG (last one in my opinion) and we PACKED that place. The
biggest complaint that I had with Peresuck (and I think it was shared
by many others) is that they forgot or didn't care that we as Remedy
customers existed. They figured it out only when it was WAY to late.

When BMC took over, I welcomed them. I still think that they seem to
have a pretty good idea of the direction that they should take Remedy
(and us with it), even though some of the recent decisions are a
little confusing and unnerving to me, I still feel pretty good about
them.

BUT

When they purchased Remedy from Peregroan, they made a big deal about
how Remedy would be left alone to continue supporting the sizeable
user population out there. Last Year in DC, we saw some influx of BMC
product marketing. (more than I wanted, but still to be expected)
now, I feel as if we are being swallowed hook line and sinker! And I
don't like it. I dont' give a damn about the rest of the SMBU at BMC.
I care about one thing (the strongest thing they have going IMHO) and
that is the ARSystem.

Anyone listening BMC????


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)


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(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)


This posting was submitted via the Web interface

I've got a bottle of Washington State Red at home just crying for a
little attention from me!

Warren

On 4/22/05, Rick Cook wrote:
> **
> Another tack on this, if I can avoid Warren's not-yet-alcohol-fueled
> response (though it is getting closer to beer-thirty out here) ;-), is that
> if the other products are things that I as a consultant will be asked about,
> I look forward to learning a bit about those products. Again, I think we
> all want the option to have plenty of Remedy stuff to do while ignoring
> those other apps, but I don't intend to completely do so.
>
> Rick
>
>
> From: Nall, Roger
> Sent: Fri 4/22/2005 1:49 PM
>
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005
>
>
> Warren,

Tell us how you really feel. I must admit that I was more then a
> little concerned last year with the influx of other BMC product into our
> forum. Now it looks as though there are going to me more. While I don't like
> it I am not sure there is anything we are going to be able to do, short of
> not going. BMC has multiple products that they need to support and market.
> It is not like Remedy Corp. who only had one application. I don't know if
> BMC used to have a national user group meeting before the bought Remedy but
> my guess is they did not. They are obviously going to take advantage of the
> Remedy community to pitch their other products.

I will see what exactly
> they do this year before I make a decision about future R(B)UG's. Maybe if
> BMC gets enough complaints they will figure out a way to support two user
> group meetings, one RUG and one BUG. We can only see what happens.

Roger A.
> Nall
T-Mobile USA
OSSNMS Remedy Administrator/Developer
Desk
> -973-644-3963
PCS-973-652-6723
Fax -973-490-3296

-----Original
> Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 1:57 PM
To:
> arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005

You know, I'm a pretty
> emotional guy at heart, and the more I think
about this, the more pissed off
> I am.

Just a few years ago, I attended the RUG in Orlando. It was
> a
dedicated RUG (last one in my opinion) and we PACKED that place.
> The
biggest complaint that I had with Peresuck (and I think it was shared
by
> many others) is that they forgot or didn't care that we as Remedy
customers
> existed. They figured it out only when it was WAY to late.

When BMC took
> over, I welcomed them. I still think that they seem to
have a pretty good
> idea of the direction that they should take Remedy
(and us with it), even
> though some of the recent decisions are a
little confusing and unnerving to
> me, I still feel pretty good about
them.

BUT

When they purchased Remedy
> from Peregroan, they made a big deal about
how Remedy would be left alone to
> continue supporting the sizeable
user population out there. Last Year in DC,
> we saw some influx of BMC
product marketing. (more than I wanted, but still
> to be expected)
now, I feel as if we are being swallowed hook line and
> sinker! And I
don't like it. I dont' give a damn about the rest of the SMBU
> at BMC.
I care about one thing (the strongest thing they have going IMHO)
> and
that is the ARSystem.

Anyone listening
> BMC????


UNSUBSCRIBE
> or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support:
> mailto:support@arslist.org)


UNSUBSCRIBE
> or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support:
> mailto:support@arslist.org)


> This posting was submitted
> via the Web interface


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

The Service Impact Manager (previously MasterCell) and Control-SA were the
two that sparked the greatest interest by me. I went to a BMC
conference/tutorial in Dallas a year and a half or so ago where they gave
demos for various products (Remedy included).

Get ready for the BSM (Business Service Management) pitch though. They were
pushing hard with it then and I imagine pushing harder now.

It think the concept with BSM is great, but they have to digest all the
companies/products acquired over the last several years into a
siloed/integrated model where they work seamlessly together in addition to
working well in standalone environments.

I imagine this will become a finer and finer line to cross, kinda like the
line between insanity and genious.

--Axton

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Rick Cook
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 7:11 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005

**
Another tack on this, if I can avoid Warren's not-yet-alcohol-fueled
response (though it is getting closer to beer-thirty out here) ;-), is that
if the other products are things that I as a consultant will be asked about,
I look forward to learning a bit about those products. Again, I think we
all want the option to have plenty of Remedy stuff to do while ignoring
those other apps, but I don't intend to completely do so.

Rick



From: Nall, Roger
Sent: Fri 4/22/2005 1:49 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005


Warren,

Tell us how you really feel. I must admit that I was more then a little
concerned last year with the influx of other BMC product into our forum. Now
it looks as though there are going to me more. While I don't like it I am
not sure there is anything we are going to be able to do, short of not
going. BMC has multiple products that they need to support and market. It is
not like Remedy Corp. who only had one application. I don't know if BMC used
to have a national user group meeting before the bought Remedy but my guess
is they did not. They are obviously going to take advantage of the Remedy
community to pitch their other products.

I will see what exactly they do this year before I make a decision about
future R(B)UG's. Maybe if BMC gets enough complaints they will figure out a
way to support two user group meetings, one RUG and one BUG. We can only see
what happens.

Roger A. Nall
T-Mobile USA
OSSNMS Remedy Administrator/Developer
Desk -973-644-3963
PCS-973-652-6723
Fax -973-490-3296

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 1:57 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005

You know, I'm a pretty emotional guy at heart, and the more I think
about this, the more pissed off I am.

Just a few years ago, I attended the RUG in Orlando. It was a
dedicated RUG (last one in my opinion) and we PACKED that place. The
biggest complaint that I had with Peresuck (and I think it was shared
by many others) is that they forgot or didn't care that we as Remedy
customers existed. They figured it out only when it was WAY to late.

When BMC took over, I welcomed them. I still think that they seem to
have a pretty good idea of the direction that they should take Remedy
(and us with it), even though some of the recent decisions are a
little confusing and unnerving to me, I still feel pretty good about
them.

BUT

When they purchased Remedy from Peregroan, they made a big deal about
how Remedy would be left alone to continue supporting the sizeable
user population out there. Last Year in DC, we saw some influx of BMC
product marketing. (more than I wanted, but still to be expected)
now, I feel as if we are being swallowed hook line and sinker! And I
don't like it. I dont' give a damn about the rest of the SMBU at BMC.
I care about one thing (the strongest thing they have going IMHO) and
that is the ARSystem.

Anyone listening BMC????



UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)



UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)


This posting was submitted via the Web
interface


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This is more like the Remedy user population I remember, never shy,
never wanting to accept less than the best, and yes, even for change
implementors wanting some of the best features of the 'old' way !

We want meaningful tutorials that will challenge us to learn and
improve our own systems. We do NOT want sales presentations. We want
RUG, we want RUG, we want RUG !!!!!

Susan

RUG = REMEDY user group !!!!!




On 4/22/05, Warren Baltimore wrote:
> You know, I'm a pretty emotional guy at heart, and the more I think
> about this, the more pissed off I am.
>
> Just a few years ago, I attended the RUG in Orlando. It was a
> dedicated RUG (last one in my opinion) and we PACKED that place. The
> biggest complaint that I had with Peresuck (and I think it was shared
> by many others) is that they forgot or didn't care that we as Remedy
> customers existed. They figured it out only when it was WAY to late.
>
> When BMC took over, I welcomed them. I still think that they seem to
> have a pretty good idea of the direction that they should take Remedy
> (and us with it), even though some of the recent decisions are a
> little confusing and unnerving to me, I still feel pretty good about
> them.
>
> BUT
>
> When they purchased Remedy from Peregroan, they made a big deal about
> how Remedy would be left alone to continue supporting the sizeable
> user population out there. Last Year in DC, we saw some influx of BMC
> product marketing. (more than I wanted, but still to be expected)
> now, I feel as if we are being swallowed hook line and sinker! And I
> don't like it. I dont' give a damn about the rest of the SMBU at BMC.
> I care about one thing (the strongest thing they have going IMHO) and
> that is the ARSystem.
>
> Anyone listening BMC????
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

Scott,

I do host/organize the MWRUG so I guess that means I've paid my dues
and can have an opinion. All I'm asking for at RUG is the ability to

Easily identify other Remedy users

Sessions that are technical not just sales presentations of a new
product. We've covered ARS6.3 and ISTM 6.0 in our regional rug
meetings. Don't you have a local rug to attend?

BMC can have the other sessions, not a problem, but I don't want
vanilla Remedy sessions. I want ones that challenge.

One of my feedback comments last year was that there was little for
the experienced developer, where was the Expert technical line, not
that I'm an expert, but how can I stretch if I'm not presented with
challenging material and ideas.

Engineering evening is great, I look forward to that.

I also want lower volume on the music, could barely talk for days (and
yes there were people that enjoyed that).

I want an opening speaker that doesn't put the crowd to sleep
including the camera man who was 10 feet from me (ok, I too dozed off
... more than once).


And what's wrong with feeling that as a Remedy customer you are
special and are entitled to the best RUG you can have. I am a
CUSTOMER, I am supposed to be treated with special attention.

I will always be first and foremost a Remedy customer, no matter what
the name on the product is. Yes, I do handle other applications and
none of them have spawned the loyalty that Remedy has. But I think
there may be a point that more recent customers, since the non-year,
probably don't feel the same loyalty. It probably is more intense in
those of us who are pre-OTB where you had to use every aspect of the
tool to do what you wanted, not just modify an existing piece of
workflow.

Oh boy, now you've got me going and I don't want to sound harsh or
uncaring for the other people that use the other products, which I
doubt read this list.

All I wanna do is have a RUG that's a RUG .... all I wanna do is have fun .....

Susan

On 4/22/05, Axton wrote:
> The Service Impact Manager (previously MasterCell) and Control-SA were the
> two that sparked the greatest interest by me. I went to a BMC
> conference/tutorial in Dallas a year and a half or so ago where they gave
> demos for various products (Remedy included).
>
> Get ready for the BSM (Business Service Management) pitch though. They were
> pushing hard with it then and I imagine pushing harder now.
>
> It think the concept with BSM is great, but they have to digest all the
> companies/products acquired over the last several years into a
> siloed/integrated model where they work seamlessly together in addition to
> working well in standalone environments.
>
> I imagine this will become a finer and finer line to cross, kinda like the
> line between insanity and genious.
>
> --Axton
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Rick Cook
> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 7:11 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005
>
> **
> Another tack on this, if I can avoid Warren's not-yet-alcohol-fueled
> response (though it is getting closer to beer-thirty out here) ;-), is that
> if the other products are things that I as a consultant will be asked about,
> I look forward to learning a bit about those products. Again, I think we
> all want the option to have plenty of Remedy stuff to do while ignoring
> those other apps, but I don't intend to completely do so.
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> From: Nall, Roger
> Sent: Fri 4/22/2005 1:49 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005
>
> Warren,
>
> Tell us how you really feel. I must admit that I was more then a little
> concerned last year with the influx of other BMC product into our forum. Now
> it looks as though there are going to me more. While I don't like it I am
> not sure there is anything we are going to be able to do, short of not
> going. BMC has multiple products that they need to support and market. It is
> not like Remedy Corp. who only had one application. I don't know if BMC used
> to have a national user group meeting before the bought Remedy but my guess
> is they did not. They are obviously going to take advantage of the Remedy
> community to pitch their other products.
>
> I will see what exactly they do this year before I make a decision about
> future R(B)UG's. Maybe if BMC gets enough complaints they will figure out a
> way to support two user group meetings, one RUG and one BUG. We can only see
> what happens.
>
> Roger A. Nall
> T-Mobile USA
> OSSNMS Remedy Administrator/Developer
> Desk -973-644-3963
> PCS-973-652-6723
> Fax -973-490-3296
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]
> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 1:57 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005
>
> You know, I'm a pretty emotional guy at heart, and the more I think
> about this, the more pissed off I am.
>
> Just a few years ago, I attended the RUG in Orlando. It was a
> dedicated RUG (last one in my opinion) and we PACKED that place. The
> biggest complaint that I had with Peresuck (and I think it was shared
> by many others) is that they forgot or didn't care that we as Remedy
> customers existed. They figured it out only when it was WAY to late.
>
> When BMC took over, I welcomed them. I still think that they seem to
> have a pretty good idea of the direction that they should take Remedy
> (and us with it), even though some of the recent decisions are a
> little confusing and unnerving to me, I still feel pretty good about
> them.
>
> BUT
>
> When they purchased Remedy from Peregroan, they made a big deal about
> how Remedy would be left alone to continue supporting the sizeable
> user population out there. Last Year in DC, we saw some influx of BMC
> product marketing. (more than I wanted, but still to be expected)
> now, I feel as if we are being swallowed hook line and sinker! And I
> don't like it. I dont' give a damn about the rest of the SMBU at BMC.
> I care about one thing (the strongest thing they have going IMHO) and
> that is the ARSystem.
>
> Anyone listening BMC????
>
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
> This posting was submitted via the Web
> interface
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
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>


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Warren,

Now, now ... some cheese with that whine ???

The purpose of RUGs from DAY ONE, where is Ed Reynolds
when you need him, is/was to bring Remedy people together
to discuss Remedy. Did I miss something here or are we
not allowed to do that?

There certainly are more constructive ways to make our
collective voices heard and you are using one of those
vehicles here. I'd expect a stern lecture from Doug M.
on some decorum and etiquette hear, lest we go out and
burn Remedy in effigy in the parking lot....

Doug and his team literally bend over backwards to do
everything within their power to make ARS the BEST tool
on the planet and for that I am grateful. Certainly,
a chance to meet with him, shake his hand and say a
hearty Thank You is in order in my estimation but then
again I am an Old Dog... ask Claire.

OMG...

Regards...Gidd


-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Warren Baltimore
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 2:35 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005


Scott,

That is the most ridiculous statement I've heard yet. My (and others)
sense of entitlement is BECAUSE we are Remedy customers. I've Paid my
money and I expect to be heard. I don't believe anyone here (at least
not that I've heard) has suggested that there is no place for the
other BMC info....Just not at the expense of what has been a very
important and helpful aspect of RUG up to this time.

If you are content with the direction that BMC is going. That's
great. You too are a customer and are entitled to your opinion. But,
there is nothing wrong with expressing an opinion that BMC has made a
mistake. And as I said earlier, expressing it to BMC directly (which
I have). As to hosting the "DAMN" thing myself. Again, I've paid my
money, and will again to go to the "damn" thing, and if I don't like
the lack of useful information for me at the "damn" tutorials, then
you can "damn" well bet that I'm going to voice it. And again, not
just in the list, but also with BMC directly.

As to the OTB products. No one has suggested that there should be no
tutorials in regards to them, only that it should not be at the
expense of those who do not use the OTB products.

Sorry, if this or any previous post has ruffled your feathers, but oh
well....

Warren

On 4/22/05, Scott Parrish wrote:
> All,
> Here's a novel approach to the situation: If you don't like it, don't go.
If
> enough people stop attending then there will be no more RUGs and nothing
to
> complain about.
>
> If you want what YOU want, then host the damn thing yourself. I've never
> read anywhere in the Remedy licensing agreement that you are entitled to a
> RUG and that said RUG should be run YOUR way. If you don't like the
> tutorials, don't sign up for them. If you don't like the conference this
> year, don't go to next year's.
>
> This attitude of "entitlement" just because you are a Remedy/BMC customer
is
> beyond me. If it weren't for BMC there would be NO Remedy today. While
there
> is no way of knowing absolutely if that is a true statement, I believe it
is
> pretty much on the mark. So, blame BMC for ruining your precious RUG, but
> also thank them for saving Remedy.
>
> By the way, I fully intend to attend RUG this year for the first time
since
> 2000. Not that I stayed away by choice, but just never had the
opportunity.
> I, for one, am looking forward to at least the opportunity to have a look
at
> BMC products because I know that there are many, many Remedy customers out
> there looking to integrate their out of the box Remedy products with BMC
> products.
>
> If you don't like the tutorials, then don't sign up for them. If you don't
> like the conference, don't go. If you think it costs too much money, then
> don't pay for it.
>
> Lastly, I'm not sure that the true benefit of RUG is what Remedy/BMC
offers
> here anyway. I think the true benefit is meeting other people in the
Remedy
> community, finding out what they are doing and how they are doing, putting
> faces to names and maybe even making a friend or two (which I am sure I am
> doing with this post).
>
> Just my .02.
>
> Scott Parrish
> Remedy Skilled Professional
>
>


> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.



UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)


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Just so we're straight about this:

1. I addressed my previous email to "All" and removed the previous postings
because I didn't want to give the impression that I was attacking any single
individual.

2. I never said that you should not expect to be heard.

3. I have no idea which part of my statement is ridiculous. I have to assume
you gave the entire email a "ridiculous" label.

4. If you believe that just because you purchased something that you are
entitled to anything other than a working product and whatever else is
outlined in your support agreement, then I would have to say that there is a
definite communication gap here. As I said before, I don't believe it says
anywhere in your Remedy licensing agreement that you are entitled to attend
a RUG conference .... If you could point it out to me, I would greatly
appreciate it.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Warren Baltimore
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 5:35 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005

Scott,

That is the most ridiculous statement I've heard yet. My (and others)
sense of entitlement is BECAUSE we are Remedy customers. I've Paid my
money and I expect to be heard. I don't believe anyone here (at least
not that I've heard) has suggested that there is no place for the
other BMC info....Just not at the expense of what has been a very
important and helpful aspect of RUG up to this time.

If you are content with the direction that BMC is going. That's
great. You too are a customer and are entitled to your opinion. But,
there is nothing wrong with expressing an opinion that BMC has made a
mistake. And as I said earlier, expressing it to BMC directly (which
I have). As to hosting the "DAMN" thing myself. Again, I've paid my
money, and will again to go to the "damn" thing, and if I don't like
the lack of useful information for me at the "damn" tutorials, then
you can "damn" well bet that I'm going to voice it. And again, not
just in the list, but also with BMC directly.

As to the OTB products. No one has suggested that there should be no
tutorials in regards to them, only that it should not be at the
expense of those who do not use the OTB products.

Sorry, if this or any previous post has ruffled your feathers, but oh
well....

Warren

On 4/22/05, Scott Parrish wrote:
> All,
> Here's a novel approach to the situation: If you don't like it, don't go.
If
> enough people stop attending then there will be no more RUGs and nothing
to
> complain about.
>
> If you want what YOU want, then host the damn thing yourself. I've never
> read anywhere in the Remedy licensing agreement that you are entitled to a
> RUG and that said RUG should be run YOUR way. If you don't like the
> tutorials, don't sign up for them. If you don't like the conference this
> year, don't go to next year's.
>
> This attitude of "entitlement" just because you are a Remedy/BMC customer
is
> beyond me. If it weren't for BMC there would be NO Remedy today. While
there
> is no way of knowing absolutely if that is a true statement, I believe it
is
> pretty much on the mark. So, blame BMC for ruining your precious RUG, but
> also thank them for saving Remedy.
>
> By the way, I fully intend to attend RUG this year for the first time
since
> 2000. Not that I stayed away by choice, but just never had the
opportunity.
> I, for one, am looking forward to at least the opportunity to have a look
at
> BMC products because I know that there are many, many Remedy customers out
> there looking to integrate their out of the box Remedy products with BMC
> products.
>
> If you don't like the tutorials, then don't sign up for them. If you don't
> like the conference, don't go. If you think it costs too much money, then
> don't pay for it.
>
> Lastly, I'm not sure that the true benefit of RUG is what Remedy/BMC
offers
> here anyway. I think the true benefit is meeting other people in the
Remedy
> community, finding out what they are doing and how they are doing, putting
> faces to names and maybe even making a friend or two (which I am sure I am
> doing with this post).
>
> Just my .02.
>
> Scott Parrish
> Remedy Skilled Professional
>
>


> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.



UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)


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HaHa

I forgot about the cameraman.... It would have been perfect if he had
fallen out of his chair. Would have pretty much said it all as far as
that speaker goes....

Susan, well said....and I noticed that you did not once use the word "damn".

Warren

On 4/22/05, Susan Palmer wrote:
> Scott,
>
> I do host/organize the MWRUG so I guess that means I've paid my dues
> and can have an opinion. All I'm asking for at RUG is the ability to
>
> Easily identify other Remedy users
>
> Sessions that are technical not just sales presentations of a new
> product. We've covered ARS6.3 and ISTM 6.0 in our regional rug
> meetings. Don't you have a local rug to attend?
>
> BMC can have the other sessions, not a problem, but I don't want
> vanilla Remedy sessions. I want ones that challenge.
>
> One of my feedback comments last year was that there was little for
> the experienced developer, where was the Expert technical line, not
> that I'm an expert, but how can I stretch if I'm not presented with
> challenging material and ideas.
>
> Engineering evening is great, I look forward to that.
>
> I also want lower volume on the music, could barely talk for days (and
> yes there were people that enjoyed that).
>
> I want an opening speaker that doesn't put the crowd to sleep
> including the camera man who was 10 feet from me (ok, I too dozed off
> ... more than once).
>
> And what's wrong with feeling that as a Remedy customer you are
> special and are entitled to the best RUG you can have. I am a
> CUSTOMER, I am supposed to be treated with special attention.
>
> I will always be first and foremost a Remedy customer, no matter what
> the name on the product is. Yes, I do handle other applications and
> none of them have spawned the loyalty that Remedy has. But I think
> there may be a point that more recent customers, since the non-year,
> probably don't feel the same loyalty. It probably is more intense in
> those of us who are pre-OTB where you had to use every aspect of the
> tool to do what you wanted, not just modify an existing piece of
> workflow.
>
> Oh boy, now you've got me going and I don't want to sound harsh or
> uncaring for the other people that use the other products, which I
> doubt read this list.
>
> All I wanna do is have a RUG that's a RUG .... all I wanna do is have fun .....
>
> Susan
>
> On 4/22/05, Axton wrote:
> > The Service Impact Manager (previously MasterCell) and Control-SA were the
> > two that sparked the greatest interest by me. I went to a BMC
> > conference/tutorial in Dallas a year and a half or so ago where they gave
> > demos for various products (Remedy included).
> >
> > Get ready for the BSM (Business Service Management) pitch though. They were
> > pushing hard with it then and I imagine pushing harder now.
> >
> > It think the concept with BSM is great, but they have to digest all the
> > companies/products acquired over the last several years into a
> > siloed/integrated model where they work seamlessly together in addition to
> > working well in standalone environments.
> >
> > I imagine this will become a finer and finer line to cross, kinda like the
> > line between insanity and genious.
> >
> > --Axton
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> > [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Rick Cook
> > Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 7:11 PM
> > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> > Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005
> >
> > **
> > Another tack on this, if I can avoid Warren's not-yet-alcohol-fueled
> > response (though it is getting closer to beer-thirty out here) ;-), is that
> > if the other products are things that I as a consultant will be asked about,
> > I look forward to learning a bit about those products. Again, I think we
> > all want the option to have plenty of Remedy stuff to do while ignoring
> > those other apps, but I don't intend to completely do so.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> >
> > From: Nall, Roger
> > Sent: Fri 4/22/2005 1:49 PM
> > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> > Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005
> >
> > Warren,
> >
> > Tell us how you really feel. I must admit that I was more then a little
> > concerned last year with the influx of other BMC product into our forum. Now
> > it looks as though there are going to me more. While I don't like it I am
> > not sure there is anything we are going to be able to do, short of not
> > going. BMC has multiple products that they need to support and market. It is
> > not like Remedy Corp. who only had one application. I don't know if BMC used
> > to have a national user group meeting before the bought Remedy but my guess
> > is they did not. They are obviously going to take advantage of the Remedy
> > community to pitch their other products.
> >
> > I will see what exactly they do this year before I make a decision about
> > future R(B)UG's. Maybe if BMC gets enough complaints they will figure out a
> > way to support two user group meetings, one RUG and one BUG. We can only see
> > what happens.
> >
> > Roger A. Nall
> > T-Mobile USA
> > OSSNMS Remedy Administrator/Developer
> > Desk -973-644-3963
> > PCS-973-652-6723
> > Fax -973-490-3296
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> > [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]
> > Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 1:57 PM
> > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> > Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005
> >
> > You know, I'm a pretty emotional guy at heart, and the more I think
> > about this, the more pissed off I am.
> >
> > Just a few years ago, I attended the RUG in Orlando. It was a
> > dedicated RUG (last one in my opinion) and we PACKED that place. The
> > biggest complaint that I had with Peresuck (and I think it was shared
> > by many others) is that they forgot or didn't care that we as Remedy
> > customers existed. They figured it out only when it was WAY to late.
> >
> > When BMC took over, I welcomed them. I still think that they seem to
> > have a pretty good idea of the direction that they should take Remedy
> > (and us with it), even though some of the recent decisions are a
> > little confusing and unnerving to me, I still feel pretty good about
> > them.
> >
> > BUT
> >
> > When they purchased Remedy from Peregroan, they made a big deal about
> > how Remedy would be left alone to continue supporting the sizeable
> > user population out there. Last Year in DC, we saw some influx of BMC
> > product marketing. (more than I wanted, but still to be expected)
> > now, I feel as if we are being swallowed hook line and sinker! And I
> > don't like it. I dont' give a damn about the rest of the SMBU at BMC.
> > I care about one thing (the strongest thing they have going IMHO) and
> > that is the ARSystem.
> >
> > Anyone listening BMC????
> >
> >
> >
> > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> > (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
> >
> >
> >
> > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> > (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
> >
> > This posting was submitted via the Web
> > interface
> >
> >
> > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> > (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
> >
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

Scott,

First off, apologies all around. It was the end of the day, and I was
cranked off about something else. Your posting (which I disagree with
vehmently) just set me off. Decorum was lacking on my part.

I think what you are missing (and perhaps I'm not saying well) is that
I do pay for RUG (or at least my employer does) and as such, I believe
that gives me a right to voice my concerns over the lack of
information that is usefull to me (and I might point out others like
me) in the pre-conference tutorials. I am not suggesting that what
they are offering is worthless. If you work in an environment that
uses OTB products, it is anything but worthless.

The beauty and strength of Remedy has always been it's ability to be
flexible. We, as developers can build MANY applications that do not
fall into the SMB silo that BMC is pushing. For many years, RUG has
been a place where we, as developers, could go and learn what everyone
else was doing and hopefully walk away with more ideas then you can
shake a dead peregrine at. The tutorials have always been a source of
specialized information that helped developers better utilize the
tools that the AR System offered. I have attended such tutorials as
integrating with Crystal, utilizing the C API, Building and testing
applications that are more useful to the user, better configuring the
server, etc.

There has always been courses offered for customers that utilize the
OTB products (and should be). My complaint (and I think for others
also) is that they have totally dropped the pre conference classes
that would have benefited people not neccesarly interested in the OTB
products and have instead focused on OTB only. Call it what you will,
to me it's just plain old fashioned marketing. (and the worst part of
it is, you'll have to pay to sit through those marketing sessions).

I will not be attending these sessions (with the exception of what's
new). Not because I'm protesting, but because they are worthless to
me. I will be going to RUG, because it is still the best use of money
for my employer. Where else can they send me that I can meet
thousands of others like me, and walk away charged up with ideas on
how to better my project?!?!?!?!

I accept that your intent was not to attack anyone, but Scott,
perception is key.

Hope you have a good weekend, and again, my apology.

Warren



On 4/22/05, Scott Parrish wrote:
> Just so we're straight about this:
>
> 1. I addressed my previous email to "All" and removed the previous postings
> because I didn't want to give the impression that I was attacking any single
> individual.
>
> 2. I never said that you should not expect to be heard.
>
> 3. I have no idea which part of my statement is ridiculous. I have to assume
> you gave the entire email a "ridiculous" label.
>
> 4. If you believe that just because you purchased something that you are
> entitled to anything other than a working product and whatever else is
> outlined in your support agreement, then I would have to say that there is a
> definite communication gap here. As I said before, I don't believe it says
> anywhere in your Remedy licensing agreement that you are entitled to attend
> a RUG conference .... If you could point it out to me, I would greatly
> appreciate it.
>
> Scott
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Warren Baltimore
> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 5:35 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005
>
> Scott,
>
> That is the most ridiculous statement I've heard yet. My (and others)
> sense of entitlement is BECAUSE we are Remedy customers. I've Paid my
> money and I expect to be heard. I don't believe anyone here (at least
> not that I've heard) has suggested that there is no place for the
> other BMC info....Just not at the expense of what has been a very
> important and helpful aspect of RUG up to this time.
>
> If you are content with the direction that BMC is going. That's
> great. You too are a customer and are entitled to your opinion. But,
> there is nothing wrong with expressing an opinion that BMC has made a
> mistake. And as I said earlier, expressing it to BMC directly (which
> I have). As to hosting the "DAMN" thing myself. Again, I've paid my
> money, and will again to go to the "damn" thing, and if I don't like
> the lack of useful information for me at the "damn" tutorials, then
> you can "damn" well bet that I'm going to voice it. And again, not
> just in the list, but also with BMC directly.
>
> As to the OTB products. No one has suggested that there should be no
> tutorials in regards to them, only that it should not be at the
> expense of those who do not use the OTB products.
>
> Sorry, if this or any previous post has ruffled your feathers, but oh
> well....
>
> Warren
>
> On 4/22/05, Scott Parrish wrote:
> > All,
> > Here's a novel approach to the situation: If you don't like it, don't go.
> If
> > enough people stop attending then there will be no more RUGs and nothing
> to
> > complain about.
> >
> > If you want what YOU want, then host the damn thing yourself. I've never
> > read anywhere in the Remedy licensing agreement that you are entitled to a
> > RUG and that said RUG should be run YOUR way. If you don't like the
> > tutorials, don't sign up for them. If you don't like the conference this
> > year, don't go to next year's.
> >
> > This attitude of "entitlement" just because you are a Remedy/BMC customer
> is
> > beyond me. If it weren't for BMC there would be NO Remedy today. While
> there
> > is no way of knowing absolutely if that is a true statement, I believe it
> is
> > pretty much on the mark. So, blame BMC for ruining your precious RUG, but
> > also thank them for saving Remedy.
> >
> > By the way, I fully intend to attend RUG this year for the first time
> since
> > 2000. Not that I stayed away by choice, but just never had the
> opportunity.
> > I, for one, am looking forward to at least the opportunity to have a look
> at
> > BMC products because I know that there are many, many Remedy customers out
> > there looking to integrate their out of the box Remedy products with BMC
> > products.
> >
> > If you don't like the tutorials, then don't sign up for them. If you don't
> > like the conference, don't go. If you think it costs too much money, then
> > don't pay for it.
> >
> > Lastly, I'm not sure that the true benefit of RUG is what Remedy/BMC
> offers
> > here anyway. I think the true benefit is meeting other people in the
> Remedy
> > community, finding out what they are doing and how they are doing, putting
> > faces to names and maybe even making a friend or two (which I am sure I am
> > doing with this post).
> >
> > Just my .02.
> >
> > Scott Parrish
> > Remedy Skilled Professional
> >
> >
>
>
> > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> > (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
> >
>
> --
> Warren R. Baltimore II
> Remedy Developer
> UW Medicine IT Services
> School of Medicine
> University of Washington
> Box 358220
> 1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
> Seattle, WA 98101
> Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
> Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
> V: 206-543-7392
> F: 206-221-4745
>
> The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
> University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
> own.
>
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

To place a now obvious post-note to this thread; Because of the diversity of
customer of both the ARS, and the Remedy off-the-shelf products, RUG has
always been a catch-all that applied to some people (new and prospective
customers), and has been sometime been viewed by others as a full-on sales
seminar. In my case I usually attend when there are full version changes
coming.

If BMC, which is the savior of this APP, and needs to be respected as such
wants to focus their sales of product at "Your" RUG, then who really cares.
I am sure that the time, effort and money spent to organize such events,
which do not pay for themselves traditionally, no matter what the fee, could
be spent to oh....I dunno.... save a large portion of their recently laid
off workforce for instance.

Lets give BMC a chance at this years RUG, and if they drop the ball, then
nail them for it. We have to consider the time and the climate before we
start beating on this ARS Owner like we did the last.

Just an opinion.

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Scott Parrish
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 9:17 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005

Just so we're straight about this:

1. I addressed my previous email to "All" and removed the previous postings
because I didn't want to give the impression that I was attacking any single
individual.

2. I never said that you should not expect to be heard.

3. I have no idea which part of my statement is ridiculous. I have to assume
you gave the entire email a "ridiculous" label.

4. If you believe that just because you purchased something that you are
entitled to anything other than a working product and whatever else is
outlined in your support agreement, then I would have to say that there is a
definite communication gap here. As I said before, I don't believe it says
anywhere in your Remedy licensing agreement that you are entitled to attend
a RUG conference .... If you could point it out to me, I would greatly
appreciate it.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Warren Baltimore
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 5:35 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005

Scott,

That is the most ridiculous statement I've heard yet. My (and others)
sense of entitlement is BECAUSE we are Remedy customers. I've Paid my
money and I expect to be heard. I don't believe anyone here (at least
not that I've heard) has suggested that there is no place for the
other BMC info....Just not at the expense of what has been a very
important and helpful aspect of RUG up to this time.

If you are content with the direction that BMC is going. That's
great. You too are a customer and are entitled to your opinion. But,
there is nothing wrong with expressing an opinion that BMC has made a
mistake. And as I said earlier, expressing it to BMC directly (which
I have). As to hosting the "DAMN" thing myself. Again, I've paid my
money, and will again to go to the "damn" thing, and if I don't like
the lack of useful information for me at the "damn" tutorials, then
you can "damn" well bet that I'm going to voice it. And again, not
just in the list, but also with BMC directly.

As to the OTB products. No one has suggested that there should be no
tutorials in regards to them, only that it should not be at the
expense of those who do not use the OTB products.

Sorry, if this or any previous post has ruffled your feathers, but oh
well....

Warren

On 4/22/05, Scott Parrish wrote:
> All,
> Here's a novel approach to the situation: If you don't like it, don't go.
If
> enough people stop attending then there will be no more RUGs and nothing
to
> complain about.
>
> If you want what YOU want, then host the damn thing yourself. I've never
> read anywhere in the Remedy licensing agreement that you are entitled to a
> RUG and that said RUG should be run YOUR way. If you don't like the
> tutorials, don't sign up for them. If you don't like the conference this
> year, don't go to next year's.
>
> This attitude of "entitlement" just because you are a Remedy/BMC customer
is
> beyond me. If it weren't for BMC there would be NO Remedy today. While
there
> is no way of knowing absolutely if that is a true statement, I believe it
is
> pretty much on the mark. So, blame BMC for ruining your precious RUG, but
> also thank them for saving Remedy.
>
> By the way, I fully intend to attend RUG this year for the first time
since
> 2000. Not that I stayed away by choice, but just never had the
opportunity.
> I, for one, am looking forward to at least the opportunity to have a look
at
> BMC products because I know that there are many, many Remedy customers out
> there looking to integrate their out of the box Remedy products with BMC
> products.
>
> If you don't like the tutorials, then don't sign up for them. If you don't
> like the conference, don't go. If you think it costs too much money, then
> don't pay for it.
>
> Lastly, I'm not sure that the true benefit of RUG is what Remedy/BMC
offers
> here anyway. I think the true benefit is meeting other people in the
Remedy
> community, finding out what they are doing and how they are doing, putting
> faces to names and maybe even making a friend or two (which I am sure I am
> doing with this post).
>
> Just my .02.
>
> Scott Parrish
> Remedy Skilled Professional
>
>


> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.



UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)



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I'd have to agree with Warren on this.

So BMC bought Remedy and now wants to use it to promote the sales of their
other products. Let them do it, just not at the RUG. When you think about
the general audience of who will be attending RUG, is it the developers? Or
is it the senior executives? I believe it is mostly developers. While
developers can share thoughts with senior executives on what they feel would
be beneficial, how many developers do you know with the authority to
purchase software? If BMC tries to turn RUG into a marketing pitch, they are
just wasting their time as much as ours.

- Daniel

-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Baltimore [mailto:warrenbaltimore@GMAIL.COM]
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 3:34 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005


To be blunt Rick.... I don't care.

I'm interested in one thing and one thing only. ARS, How to use it
better and how to get my money's worth out of it.

Warren

On 4/22/05, Rick Cook wrote:
> **
> Warren,
>
> I do understand and appreciate your points, but look at why BMC bought
> Remedy. Was it to add a piece to the BSM puzzle? Yes. Was it also to
> create another integration point (and therefore a sales point) for the BMC
> products? Absolutely. BMC is trying to use what is now their flagship
> product (Remedy) to help sales in their other products. I can't blame
them
> too much for that, as long as they don't change the format or the focus of
> the conference too much.
>
> Rick
>
>
> From: Warren Baltimore
> Sent: Fri 4/22/2005 10:57 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005
>
> You know, I'm a pretty emotional guy at heart, and the more I think
about
> this, the more pissed off I am.

Just a few years ago, I attended the RUG in
> Orlando. It was a
dedicated RUG (last one in my opinion) and we PACKED that
> place. The
biggest complaint that I had with Peresuck (and I think it was
> shared
by many others) is that they forgot or didn't care that we as
> Remedy
customers existed. They figured it out only when it was WAY to
> late.

When BMC took over, I welcomed them. I still think that they seem
> to
have a pretty good idea of the direction that they should take
> Remedy
(and us with it), even though some of the recent decisions are
> a
little confusing and unnerving to me, I still feel pretty good
> about
them.

BUT

When they purchased Remedy from Peregroan, they made a big
> deal about
how Remedy would be left alone to continue supporting the
> sizeable
user population out there. Last Year in DC, we saw some influx of
> BMC
product marketing. (more than I wanted, but still to be expected)
now, I
> feel as if we are being swallowed hook line and sinker! And I
don't like it.
> I dont' give a damn about the rest of the SMBU at BMC.
I care about one
> thing (the strongest thing they have going IMHO) and
that is the
> ARSystem.

Anyone listening
> BMC????



UNSUBSCRIBE
> or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support:
> mailto:support@arslist.org)


> This posting was submitted
> via the Web interface


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.



UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)



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Hi All,

I think that the loudest message the would definitely get would be if we
don't show up this year! I think that together we're strong enough to show
them what we want, when we just stay home. I'm not going to pay for a sales
event, esp. regarding products that I'm not interested in!


Mark


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**
If you're going to base your action on unknown data, then all I can say is that I hope you enjoy reading about it from those who decided to get what they could from the event, instead of complaining about what they believed they could not.

Whether you think you can or think you can't - you're right.

Rick



From: Mark Milke
Sent: Mon 4/25/2005 5:13 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005


Hi All,

I think that the loudest message the would definitely get would be if we
don't show up this year! I think that together we're strong enough to show
them what we want, when we just stay home. I'm not going to pay for a sales
event, esp. regarding products that I'm not interested in!


Mark


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)


This posting was submitted via the Web interface

I have never attended a RUG, but for what they charge they should
certainly be able to break even. That is unless of course they provide
free alcohol....... I digress.

My main point was this:

We (the users) have all the power in this situation. If no one attends
and the reasons why are communicated to BMC, you can bet that something
will change for the next year. Of course that is easy for me to say
since I do not attend anyway. I was actually going to post a question as
to the usefulness of them and if it worth attending as a novice admin,
but I think I have obtained the answer to that question. From what I am
reading, I straight-up Remedy class would probably be a better use of
company money for me.


Andy L. Mayfield
System Operation Specialist
Alabama Power Company
Office: 8-226-1805


-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Timothy Button
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 2:39 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005

To place a now obvious post-note to this thread; Because of the
diversity of
customer of both the ARS, and the Remedy off-the-shelf products, RUG has
always been a catch-all that applied to some people (new and prospective
customers), and has been sometime been viewed by others as a full-on
sales
seminar. In my case I usually attend when there are full version changes
coming.

If BMC, which is the savior of this APP, and needs to be respected as
such
wants to focus their sales of product at "Your" RUG, then who really
cares.
I am sure that the time, effort and money spent to organize such events,
which do not pay for themselves traditionally, no matter what the fee,
could
be spent to oh....I dunno.... save a large portion of their recently
laid
off workforce for instance.

Lets give BMC a chance at this years RUG, and if they drop the ball,
then
nail them for it. We have to consider the time and the climate before we
start beating on this ARS Owner like we did the last.

Just an opinion.

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Scott Parrish
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 9:17 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005

Just so we're straight about this:

1. I addressed my previous email to "All" and removed the previous
postings
because I didn't want to give the impression that I was attacking any
single
individual.

2. I never said that you should not expect to be heard.

3. I have no idea which part of my statement is ridiculous. I have to
assume
you gave the entire email a "ridiculous" label.

4. If you believe that just because you purchased something that you are
entitled to anything other than a working product and whatever else is
outlined in your support agreement, then I would have to say that there
is a
definite communication gap here. As I said before, I don't believe it
says
anywhere in your Remedy licensing agreement that you are entitled to
attend
a RUG conference .... If you could point it out to me, I would greatly
appreciate it.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Warren Baltimore
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 5:35 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005

Scott,

That is the most ridiculous statement I've heard yet. My (and others)
sense of entitlement is BECAUSE we are Remedy customers. I've Paid my
money and I expect to be heard. I don't believe anyone here (at least
not that I've heard) has suggested that there is no place for the
other BMC info....Just not at the expense of what has been a very
important and helpful aspect of RUG up to this time.

If you are content with the direction that BMC is going. That's
great. You too are a customer and are entitled to your opinion. But,
there is nothing wrong with expressing an opinion that BMC has made a
mistake. And as I said earlier, expressing it to BMC directly (which
I have). As to hosting the "DAMN" thing myself. Again, I've paid my
money, and will again to go to the "damn" thing, and if I don't like
the lack of useful information for me at the "damn" tutorials, then
you can "damn" well bet that I'm going to voice it. And again, not
just in the list, but also with BMC directly.

As to the OTB products. No one has suggested that there should be no
tutorials in regards to them, only that it should not be at the
expense of those who do not use the OTB products.

Sorry, if this or any previous post has ruffled your feathers, but oh
well....

Warren

On 4/22/05, Scott Parrish wrote:
> All,
> Here's a novel approach to the situation: If you don't like it, don't
go.
If
> enough people stop attending then there will be no more RUGs and
nothing
to
> complain about.
>
> If you want what YOU want, then host the damn thing yourself. I've
never
> read anywhere in the Remedy licensing agreement that you are entitled
to a
> RUG and that said RUG should be run YOUR way. If you don't like the
> tutorials, don't sign up for them. If you don't like the conference
this
> year, don't go to next year's.
>
> This attitude of "entitlement" just because you are a Remedy/BMC
customer
is
> beyond me. If it weren't for BMC there would be NO Remedy today. While
there
> is no way of knowing absolutely if that is a true statement, I believe
it
is
> pretty much on the mark. So, blame BMC for ruining your precious RUG,
but
> also thank them for saving Remedy.
>
> By the way, I fully intend to attend RUG this year for the first time
since
> 2000. Not that I stayed away by choice, but just never had the
opportunity.
> I, for one, am looking forward to at least the opportunity to have a
look
at
> BMC products because I know that there are many, many Remedy customers
out
> there looking to integrate their out of the box Remedy products with
BMC
> products.
>
> If you don't like the tutorials, then don't sign up for them. If you
don't
> like the conference, don't go. If you think it costs too much money,
then
> don't pay for it.
>
> Lastly, I'm not sure that the true benefit of RUG is what Remedy/BMC
offers
> here anyway. I think the true benefit is meeting other people in the
Remedy
> community, finding out what they are doing and how they are doing,
putting
> faces to names and maybe even making a friend or two (which I am sure
I am
> doing with this post).
>
> Just my .02.
>
> Scott Parrish
> Remedy Skilled Professional
>
>



> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.




UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)




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Andy,

Don't confuse our rhetoric about the Tutorials and the change in
format with the value of the RUG portion. Since we don't know what
the sessions during RUG are yet it's hard to comment on them. I know
that last year I found less sessions interesting to me than in the
past. It may have been just what I was interested in that produced
that judgement. BUT, there were numerous great sessions that hit home
and provided educational benefits.

But the other things like evening with the engineers, talking to other
developers over lunch or dinner or when just taking a break in the
open areas are not something that you can really put a price on. Of
course that portion of the conference is what you make it, it does
require one to at least put yourself out there and to say hello.

And how many other product conferences have you gone to where you can
talk to a man like Doug Mueller, co founder and CTO. You'll see him
all through the conference in the open areas and he is very
approachable.

My point about it being a combined conference was not that I didn't
want the other groups there, I just want to easily be able to identify
other Remedy people. I'm sure I will have interesting conversations
with people from all the groups, but I do have a focal interest that
is primary.

I believe they cover the majority of their costs with the fees. And
there were a couple of times at least where there was free beer, if
that's a priority in your decision ... there were other goodies too!

Alot of our power comes from filling out the conference survey forms
in an effort to compliment what goes well and ask for changes in
things we don't like. But remember, what I like, you may not, so many
times it probably cancels out. Plus as the conference is running,
there are the executives available to listen along with many other
staff members. There is generally an ask management session too on
the second day, after you've had enough time to form opinions. I
mentioned a few things last year and they were implemented not too
long afterwards, which I was very pleased about.

Since you have never been to a RUG it's easy to talk about 'not
attending' as a form of action. We don't want it to go away, we just
want it to be good for everyone. If you've attended there's a better
than average chance you'll want to attend again. Ask those that are
not lucky enough to be able to attend on a regular basis.

Alot of us are one-man/woman shops and we don't have anyone else in
the next desk to talk these things over with. This is our forum for
discussion so don't always take negative remarks so seriously.

Time to end the day !

Susan



On 4/25/05, Mayfield, Andy L. wrote:
> I have never attended a RUG, but for what they charge they should
> certainly be able to break even. That is unless of course they provide
> free alcohol....... I digress.
>
> My main point was this:
>
> We (the users) have all the power in this situation. If no one attends
> and the reasons why are communicated to BMC, you can bet that something
> will change for the next year. Of course that is easy for me to say
> since I do not attend anyway. I was actually going to post a question as
> to the usefulness of them and if it worth attending as a novice admin,
> but I think I have obtained the answer to that question. From what I am
> reading, I straight-up Remedy class would probably be a better use of
> company money for me.
>
> Andy L. Mayfield
> System Operation Specialist
> Alabama Power Company
> Office: 8-226-1805
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Timothy Button
> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 2:39 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005
>
> To place a now obvious post-note to this thread; Because of the
> diversity of
> customer of both the ARS, and the Remedy off-the-shelf products, RUG has
> always been a catch-all that applied to some people (new and prospective
> customers), and has been sometime been viewed by others as a full-on
> sales
> seminar. In my case I usually attend when there are full version changes
> coming.
>
> If BMC, which is the savior of this APP, and needs to be respected as
> such
> wants to focus their sales of product at "Your" RUG, then who really
> cares.
> I am sure that the time, effort and money spent to organize such events,
> which do not pay for themselves traditionally, no matter what the fee,
> could
> be spent to oh....I dunno.... save a large portion of their recently
> laid
> off workforce for instance.
>
> Lets give BMC a chance at this years RUG, and if they drop the ball,
> then
> nail them for it. We have to consider the time and the climate before we
> start beating on this ARS Owner like we did the last.
>
> Just an opinion.
>
> Tim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Scott Parrish
> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 9:17 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005
>
> Just so we're straight about this:
>
> 1. I addressed my previous email to "All" and removed the previous
> postings
> because I didn't want to give the impression that I was attacking any
> single
> individual.
>
> 2. I never said that you should not expect to be heard.
>
> 3. I have no idea which part of my statement is ridiculous. I have to
> assume
> you gave the entire email a "ridiculous" label.
>
> 4. If you believe that just because you purchased something that you are
> entitled to anything other than a working product and whatever else is
> outlined in your support agreement, then I would have to say that there
> is a
> definite communication gap here. As I said before, I don't believe it
> says
> anywhere in your Remedy licensing agreement that you are entitled to
> attend
> a RUG conference .... If you could point it out to me, I would greatly
> appreciate it.
>
> Scott
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Warren Baltimore
> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 5:35 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005
>
> Scott,
>
> That is the most ridiculous statement I've heard yet. My (and others)
> sense of entitlement is BECAUSE we are Remedy customers. I've Paid my
> money and I expect to be heard. I don't believe anyone here (at least
> not that I've heard) has suggested that there is no place for the
> other BMC info....Just not at the expense of what has been a very
> important and helpful aspect of RUG up to this time.
>
> If you are content with the direction that BMC is going. That's
> great. You too are a customer and are entitled to your opinion. But,
> there is nothing wrong with expressing an opinion that BMC has made a
> mistake. And as I said earlier, expressing it to BMC directly (which
> I have). As to hosting the "DAMN" thing myself. Again, I've paid my
> money, and will again to go to the "damn" thing, and if I don't like
> the lack of useful information for me at the "damn" tutorials, then
> you can "damn" well bet that I'm going to voice it. And again, not
> just in the list, but also with BMC directly.
>
> As to the OTB products. No one has suggested that there should be no
> tutorials in regards to them, only that it should not be at the
> expense of those who do not use the OTB products.
>
> Sorry, if this or any previous post has ruffled your feathers, but oh
> well....
>
> Warren
>
> On 4/22/05, Scott Parrish wrote:
> > All,
> > Here's a novel approach to the situation: If you don't like it, don't
> go.
> If
> > enough people stop attending then there will be no more RUGs and
> nothing
> to
> > complain about.
> >
> > If you want what YOU want, then host the damn thing yourself. I've
> never
> > read anywhere in the Remedy licensing agreement that you are entitled
> to a
> > RUG and that said RUG should be run YOUR way. If you don't like the
> > tutorials, don't sign up for them. If you don't like the conference
> this
> > year, don't go to next year's.
> >
> > This attitude of "entitlement" just because you are a Remedy/BMC
> customer
> is
> > beyond me. If it weren't for BMC there would be NO Remedy today. While
> there
> > is no way of knowing absolutely if that is a true statement, I believe
> it
> is
> > pretty much on the mark. So, blame BMC for ruining your precious RUG,
> but
> > also thank them for saving Remedy.
> >
> > By the way, I fully intend to attend RUG this year for the first time
> since
> > 2000. Not that I stayed away by choice, but just never had the
> opportunity.
> > I, for one, am looking forward to at least the opportunity to have a
> look
> at
> > BMC products because I know that there are many, many Remedy customers
> out
> > there looking to integrate their out of the box Remedy products with
> BMC
> > products.
> >
> > If you don't like the tutorials, then don't sign up for them. If you
> don't
> > like the conference, don't go. If you think it costs too much money,
> then
> > don't pay for it.
> >
> > Lastly, I'm not sure that the true benefit of RUG is what Remedy/BMC
> offers
> > here anyway. I think the true benefit is meeting other people in the
> Remedy
> > community, finding out what they are doing and how they are doing,
> putting
> > faces to names and maybe even making a friend or two (which I am sure
> I am
> > doing with this post).
> >
> > Just my .02.
> >
> > Scott Parrish
> > Remedy Skilled Professional
> >
> >
>
>
>
> > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> > (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
> >
>
> --
> Warren R. Baltimore II
> Remedy Developer
> UW Medicine IT Services
> School of Medicine
> University of Washington
> Box 358220
> 1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
> Seattle, WA 98101
> Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
> Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
> V: 206-543-7392
> F: 206-221-4745
>
> The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
> University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
> own.
>
>
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
>
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
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**
Jane, you ignorant slut...no, just kidding, Andy. But seriously, if you've never been to a RUG, you can't possibly know how valuable they are. They are twice the value (at least) of a training class, at half the price. I've been to four, and can't wait to go back. Even if the worst case happens, it will still be worth it.

Rick



From: Mayfield, Andy L.
Sent: Mon 4/25/2005 3:24 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005


I have never attended a RUG, but for what they charge they should
certainly be able to break even. That is unless of course they provide
free alcohol....... I digress.

My main point was this:

We (the users) have all the power in this situation. If no one attends
and the reasons why are communicated to BMC, you can bet that something
will change for the next year. Of course that is easy for me to say
since I do not attend anyway. I was actually going to post a question as
to the usefulness of them and if it worth attending as a novice admin,
but I think I have obtained the answer to that question. From what I am
reading, I straight-up Remedy class would probably be a better use of
company money for me.


Andy L. Mayfield
System Operation Specialist
Alabama Power Company
Office: 8-226-1805


-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Timothy Button
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2005 2:39 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005

To place a now obvious post-note to this thread; Because of the
diversity of
customer of both the ARS, and the Remedy off-the-shelf products, RUG has
always been a catch-all that applied to some people (new and prospective
customers), and has been sometime been viewed by others as a full-on
sales
seminar. In my case I usually attend when there are full version changes
coming.

If BMC, which is the savior of this APP, and needs to be respected as
such
wants to focus their sales of product at "Your" RUG, then who really
cares.
I am sure that the time, effort and money spent to organize such events,
which do not pay for themselves traditionally, no matter what the fee,
could
be spent to oh....I dunno.... save a large portion of their recently
laid
off workforce for instance.

Lets give BMC a chance at this years RUG, and if they drop the ball,
then
nail them for it. We have to consider the time and the climate before we
start beating on this ARS Owner like we did the last.

Just an opinion.

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Scott Parrish
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 9:17 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005

Just so we're straight about this:

1. I addressed my previous email to "All" and removed the previous
postings
because I didn't want to give the impression that I was attacking any
single
individual.

2. I never said that you should not expect to be heard.

3. I have no idea which part of my statement is ridiculous. I have to
assume
you gave the entire email a "ridiculous" label.

4. If you believe that just because you purchased something that you are
entitled to anything other than a working product and whatever else is
outlined in your support agreement, then I would have to say that there
is a
definite communication gap here. As I said before, I don't believe it
says
anywhere in your Remedy licensing agreement that you are entitled to
attend
a RUG conference .... If you could point it out to me, I would greatly
appreciate it.

Scott

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Warren Baltimore
Sent: Friday, April 22, 2005 5:35 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Tutorials 2005

Scott,

That is the most ridiculous statement I've heard yet. My (and others)
sense of entitlement is BECAUSE we are Remedy customers. I've Paid my
money and I expect to be heard. I don't believe anyone here (at least
not that I've heard) has suggested that there is no place for the
other BMC info....Just not at the expense of what has been a very
important and helpful aspect of RUG up to this time.

If you are content with the direction that BMC is going. That's
great. You too are a customer and are entitled to your opinion. But,
there is nothing wrong with expressing an opinion that BMC has made a
mistake. And as I said earlier, expressing it to BMC directly (which
I have). As to hosting the "DAMN" thing myself. Again, I've paid my
money, and will again to go to the "damn" thing, and if I don't like
the lack of useful information for me at the "damn" tutorials, then
you can "damn" well bet that I'm going to voice it. And again, not
just in the list, but also with BMC directly.

As to the OTB products. No one has suggested that there should be no
tutorials in regards to them, only that it should not be at the
expense of those who do not use the OTB products.

Sorry, if this or any previous post has ruffled your feathers, but oh
well....

Warren

On 4/22/05, Scott Parrish wrote:
> All,
> Here's a novel approach to the situation: If you don't like it, don't
go.
If
> enough people stop attending then there will be no more RUGs and
nothing
to
> complain about.
>
> If you want what YOU want, then host the damn thing yourself. I've
never
> read anywhere in the Remedy licensing agreement that you are entitled
to a
> RUG and that said RUG should be run YOUR way. If you don't like the
> tutorials, don't sign up for them. If you don't like the conference
this
> year, don't go to next year's.
>
> This attitude of "entitlement" just because you are a Remedy/BMC
customer
is
> beyond me. If it weren't for BMC there would be NO Remedy today. While
there
> is no way of knowing absolutely if that is a true statement, I believe
it
is
> pretty much on the mark. So, blame BMC for ruining your precious RUG,
but
> also thank them for saving Remedy.
>
> By the way, I fully intend to attend RUG this year for the first time
since
> 2000. Not that I stayed away by choice, but just never had the
opportunity.
> I, for one, am looking forward to at least the opportunity to have a
look
at
> BMC products because I know that there are many, many Remedy customers
out
> there looking to integrate their out of the box Remedy products with
BMC
> products.
>
> If you don't like the tutorials, then don't sign up for them. If you
don't
> like the conference, don't go. If you think it costs too much money,
then
> don't pay for it.
>
> Lastly, I'm not sure that the true benefit of RUG is what Remedy/BMC
offers
> here anyway. I think the true benefit is meeting other people in the
Remedy
> community, finding out what they are doing and how they are doing,
putting
> faces to names and maybe even making a friend or two (which I am sure
I am
> doing with this post).
>
> Just my .02.
>
> Scott Parrish
> Remedy Skilled Professional
>
>



> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.




UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)




UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)



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