**
Listers:

I have an idea that's sort of related to the ongoing (and seemingly never-ending) phony RSP thread. I would like everyone's opinion of the idea of establishing an independent, "open," impartial, and virtually free certification body.

I know there are tons of folks out there--many on this list--that do not have RSPs but their knowledge of Remedy certainly warrants it. As another lister posted earlier, many of us (myself included) simply don't want to spend the ludicrous $10,000 to get a professional certification.

So here's my idea: Form our own certification authority. It would be completely open. It could be established as a nonprofit organization. To earn the certification there would be no mandatory classes--just a very comprehensive test. The test would be administered online, and results could be delivered instantly. Now in the first paragraph I said the certification would be virtually free. What I mean by that is, people wanting to take a cert would be required to make a $20-$100 donation. The donations would cover operating costs (web server, test development, certificate printing, etc.).

Remedy could be just one professional certification offered. The certification body could offer certs in Oracle, Microsoft, Cisco, etc., too. Another thought I had was the creation of a Computer Science certification. This certification would be more or less equivalent to a Computer Science degree in that the candidate would have to demonstrate thorough knowledge of calculus, C++, database design, networks, technical writing, etc. It would test a person on all the core topics of a traditional CS degree but would eliminate all the bunk (Speech, Drama, Fine Arts, Foreign Language, etc.). Plus it would allow folks who have acquired all the necessary qualifications of a CS degree to have a CS credential (again, a certificate--not a degree) without having to go back to school for four years (hard to do when you're already working a full-time profession). Yes, other community colleges and tech schools offer such certificates, but this one would be free.

Once the independent certification authority got up and running and the word spread, companies from all over would begin recognizing these certificates as credible. That way those who don't want to shell out $10,000 for a certification can still qualify for job listings that say a certification is required.

Thoughts?
Norm
This posting was submitted via the Web interface

**
Hi Norm,

Have you looked at the remedy courses prices recently? - I know it's not the point but with prices getting lower and nice promotions most of the time I've decided to become an RSP and I'm half-way through it already.

I don't think having an independent certification authority will be fair for remedy, a company we all love ;-)

I agree with you though that remedy courses used to cost a lot but it's getting much better now.

Best regards,
Ash

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96 CG/SCTOA
Sent: 08 April 2005 20:50
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: OT: Independent Certification Authority



**
Listers:

I have an idea that's sort of related to the ongoing (and seemingly never-ending) phony RSP thread. I would like everyone's opinion of the idea of establishing an independent, "open," impartial, and virtually free certification body.

I know there are tons of folks out there--many on this list--that do not have RSPs but their knowledge of Remedy certainly warrants it. As another lister posted earlier, many of us (myself included) simply don't want to spend the ludicrous $10,000 to get a professional certification.

So here's my idea: Form our own certification authority. It would be completely open. It could be established as a nonprofit organization. To earn the certification there would be no mandatory classes--just a very comprehensive test. The test would be administered online, and results could be delivered instantly. Now in the first paragraph I said the certification would be virtually free. What I mean by that is, people wanting to take a cert would be required to make a $20-$100 donation. The donations would cover operating costs (web server, test development, certificate printing, etc.).

Remedy could be just one professional certification offered. The certification body could offer certs in Oracle, Microsoft, Cisco, etc., too. Another thought I had was the creation of a Computer Science certification. This certification would be more or less equivalent to a Computer Science degree in that the candidate would have to demonstrate thorough knowledge of calculus, C++, database design, networks, technical writing, etc. It would test a person on all the core topics of a traditional CS degree but would eliminate all the bunk (Speech, Drama, Fine Arts, Foreign Language, etc.). Plus it would allow folks who have acquired all the necessary qualifications of a CS degree to have a CS credential (again, a certificate--not a degree) without having to go back to school for four years (hard to do when you're already working a full-time profession). Yes, other community colleges and tech schools offer such certificates, but this one would be free.

Once the independent certification authority got up and running and the word spread, companies from all over would begin recognizing these certificates as credible. That way those who don't want to shell out $10,000 for a certification can still qualify for job listings that say a certification is required.

Thoughts?
Norm
This posting was submitted via the Web interface



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**
Well, I checked the price this morning, and for the RSP bundle, the cost is $10,000. That's pretty steep to me, considering many folks already know most of the material presented in those classes. And if your employer doesn't pay for it, then what? You have to shell out the $10,000 yourself.

In my opinion, if this were a true professional certification program, Remedy would allow people to test for the certification without having taken any of Remedy's courses, like Microsoft does. It's clearly just a revenue generator for Remedy.

Personally, I don't see how an independent certification authority would be "unfair" to Remedy. If Remedy was concerned about being "fair," they would allow what I just mentioned.



From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Elrefaey, Ashraf
Sent: 04/11/2005 7:41 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


**
Hi Norm,

Have you looked at the remedy courses prices recently? - I know it's not the point but with prices getting lower and nice promotions most of the time I've decided to become an RSP and I'm half-way through it already.

I don't think having an independent certification authority will be fair for remedy, a company we all love ;-)

I agree with you though that remedy courses used to cost a lot but it's getting much better now.

Best regards,
Ash

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96 CG/SCTOA
Sent: 08 April 2005 20:50
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: OT: Independent Certification Authority



**
Listers:

I have an idea that's sort of related to the ongoing (and seemingly never-ending) phony RSP thread. I would like everyone's opinion of the idea of establishing an independent, "open," impartial, and virtually free certification body.

I know there are tons of folks out there--many on this list--that do not have RSPs but their knowledge of Remedy certainly warrants it. As another lister posted earlier, many of us (myself included) simply don't want to spend the ludicrous $10,000 to get a professional certification.

So here's my idea: Form our own certification authority. It would be completely open. It could be established as a nonprofit organization. To earn the certification there would be no mandatory classes--just a very comprehensive test. The test would be administered online, and results could be delivered instantly. Now in the first paragraph I said the certification would be virtually free. What I mean by that is, people wanting to take a cert would be required to make a $20-$100 donation. The donations would cover operating costs (web server, test development, certificate printing, etc.).

Remedy could be just one professional certification offered. The certification body could offer certs in Oracle, Microsoft, Cisco, etc., too. Another thought I had was the creation of a Computer Science certification. This certification would be more or less equivalent to a Computer Science degree in that the candidate would have to demonstrate thorough knowledge of calculus, C++, database design, networks, technical writing, etc. It would test a person on all the core topics of a traditional CS degree but would eliminate all the bunk (Speech, Drama, Fine Arts, Foreign Language, etc.). Plus it would allow folks who have acquired all the necessary qualifications of a CS degree to have a CS credential (again, a certificate--not a degree) without having to go back to school for four years (hard to do when you're already working a full-time profession). Yes, other community colleges and tech schools offer such certificates, but this one would be free.

Once the independent certification authority got up and running and the word spread, companies from all over would begin recognizing these certificates as credible. That way those who don't want to shell out $10,000 for a certification can still qualify for job listings that say a certification is required.

Thoughts?
Norm
This posting was submitted via the Web interface



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Internet communications are not secure and COLT does not accept responsibility for this message, its contents nor responsibility for any viruses.

No contracts can be created or varied on behalf of COLT Telecommunications, its subsidiaries or affiliates ("COLT") and any other party by email Communications unless expressly agreed in writing with such other party.

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**
Just to chime in on this..

I have been through the RAC certification program and officially held the certification until about two years ago when I decided to head out on my own again. Some time after that, I inquired as to what I would need to do to "officially" use the RSP moniker (since I wasn't a bonafide Remedy partner). I was expecting that they would come back and tell me that I needed to take the ARS 6 delta class; however, I was told that I would need to go through the entire RSP curriculum.

I thought that was completely ridiculous especially since the RAC curriculum is more involved than what is required for RSP. Had they told me all I needed was the delta class, I would have asked them where to sign. It is my opinion that Remedy's primary goal with it's education arm is revenue generation. Truly establishing a level of excellence in the field is secondary. Over the last eight years I've spent working in this field, I've met a number of people that held the RAC certification but didn't, in my opinion, possess the requisite skills. I've also met some fantastic, self-taught AR System developers that haven't attended a single class.

The AR System community recognizing a third-party certification program would be more important/relevant than Remedy recognizing it. After all, how many people doing AR System development work as freelance consultants are actually doing that work for BMC Software directly. If you're working with BMC, then it is likely you're doing so for the referrals.

I believe in third party certification of people's skills as a factor when evaluating an individual's capabilities. However, certification alone doesn't count because some people are good at taking tests. I also feel that practical experience, attitude and drive are more important factors. I'll take someone that is a short on "certified credentials", but long on experience and initiative over the converse any day!

Just my $0.02.

Derek

On Mon, 2005-04-11 at 13:40 +0100, Elrefaey, Ashraf wrote:


**

Hi Norm,



Have you looked at the remedy courses prices recently? - I know it's not the point but with prices getting lower and nice promotions most of the time I've decided to become an RSP and I'm half-way through it already.



I don't think having an independent certification authority will be fair for remedy, a company we all love ;-)



I agree with you though that remedy courses used to cost a lot but it's getting much better now.



Best regards,

Ash



-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96 CG/SCTOA
Sent: 08 April 2005 20:50
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: OT: Independent Certification Authority




**

Listers:



I have an idea that's sort of related to the ongoing (and seemingly never-ending) phony RSP thread. I would like everyone's opinion of the idea of establishing an independent, "open," impartial, and virtually free certification body.



I know there are tons of folks out there--many on this list--that do not have RSPs but their knowledge of Remedy certainly warrants it. As another lister posted earlier, many of us (myself included) simply don't want to spend the ludicrous $10,000 to get a professional certification.



So here's my idea: Form our own certification authority. It would be completely open. It could be established as a nonprofit organization. To earn the certification there would be no mandatory classes--just a very comprehensive test. The test would be administered online, and results could be delivered instantly. Now in the first paragraph I said the certification would be virtually free. What I mean by that is, people wanting to take a cert would be required to make a $20-$100 donation. The donations would cover operating costs (web server, test development, certificate printing, etc.).



Remedy could be just one professional certification offered. The certification body could offer certs in Oracle, Microsoft, Cisco, etc., too. Another thought I had was the creation of a Computer Science certification. This certification would be more or less equivalent to a Computer Science degree in that the candidate would have to demonstrate thorough knowledge of calculus, C++, database design, networks, technical writing, etc. It would test a person on all the core topics of a traditional CS degree but would eliminate all the bunk (Speech, Drama, Fine Arts, Foreign Language, etc.). Plus it would allow folks who have acquired all the necessary qualifications of a CS degree to have a CS credential (again, a certificate--not a degree) without having to go back to school for four years (hard to do when you're already working a full-time profession). Yes, other community colleges and tech schools offer such certificates, but this one would be free.



Once the independent certification authority got up and running and the word spread, companies from all over would begin recognizing these certificates as credible. That way those who don't want to shell out $10,000 for a certification can still qualify for job listings that say a certification is required.



Thoughts?

Norm

This posting was submitted via the Web interface




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Derek Berube
Wildstar Technologies, LLC.
1453 Riverview Run Lane
Suwanee, Georgia 30024
(404) 444-5283
http://www.wildstartech.com/

AIM Handle: BerubeDB
MSN Messenger: derekberube@hotmail.com
Yahoo! Messenger: derekberube
This posting was submitted via the Web interface

AOL

Also hold an RAC a few years ago, but also need to take the complete
RSP. No way.

--
Jarl

On Apr 11, 2005 3:26 PM, Derek Berube wrote:
> ** Just to chime in on this..
>
> I have been through the RAC certification program and officially held the
> certification until about two years ago when I decided to head out on my own
> again. Some time after that, I inquired as to what I would need to do to
> "officially" use the RSP moniker (since I wasn't a bonafide Remedy partner).
> I was expecting that they would come back and tell me that I needed to take
> the ARS 6 delta class; however, I was told that I would need to go through
> the entire RSP curriculum.
>
> I thought that was completely ridiculous especially since the RAC curriculum
> is more involved than what is required for RSP. Had they told me all I
> needed was the delta class, I would have asked them where to sign. It is my
> opinion that Remedy's primary goal with it's education arm is revenue
> generation. Truly establishing a level of excellence in the field is
> secondary. Over the last eight years I've spent working in this field, I've
> met a number of people that held the RAC certification but didn't, in my
> opinion, possess the requisite skills. I've also met some fantastic,
> self-taught AR System developers that haven't attended a single class.
>
> The AR System community recognizing a third-party certification program
> would be more important/relevant than Remedy recognizing it. After all, how
> many people doing AR System development work as freelance consultants are
> actually doing that work for BMC Software directly. If you're working with
> BMC, then it is likely you're doing so for the referrals.
>
> I believe in third party certification of people's skills as a factor when
> evaluating an individual's capabilities. However, certification alone
> doesn't count because some people are good at taking tests. I also feel
> that practical experience, attitude and drive are more important factors.
> I'll take someone that is a short on "certified credentials", but long on
> experience and initiative over the converse any day!
>
> Just my $0.02.
>
> Derek
>
>
> On Mon, 2005-04-11 at 13:40 +0100, Elrefaey, Ashraf wrote:
> **
> Hi Norm,
>
> Have you looked at the remedy courses prices recently? - I know it's not the
> point but with prices getting lower and nice promotions most of the time
> I've decided to become an RSP and I'm half-way through it already.
>
> I don't think having an independent certification authority will be fair for
> remedy, a company we all love ;-)
>
> I agree with you though that remedy courses used to cost a lot but it's
> getting much better now.
>
> Best regards,
> Ash
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96 CG/SCTOA
> Sent: 08 April 2005 20:50
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: OT: Independent Certification Authority
>
>
>
> **
> Listers:
>
> I have an idea that's sort of related to the ongoing (and seemingly
> never-ending) phony RSP thread. I would like everyone's opinion of the idea
> of establishing an independent, "open," impartial, and virtually free
> certification body.
>
> I know there are tons of folks out there--many on this list--that do not
> have RSPs but their knowledge of Remedy certainly warrants it. As another
> lister posted earlier, many of us (myself included) simply don't want to
> spend the ludicrous $10,000 to get a professional certification.
>
> So here's my idea: Form our own certification authority. It would be
> completely open. It could be established as a nonprofit organization. To
> earn the certification there would be no mandatory classes--just a very
> comprehensive test. The test would be administered online, and results
> could be delivered instantly. Now in the first paragraph I said the
> certification would be virtually free. What I mean by that is, people
> wanting to take a cert would be required to make a $20-$100 donation. The
> donations would cover operating costs (web server, test development,
> certificate printing, etc.).
>
> Remedy could be just one professional certification offered. The
> certification body could offer certs in Oracle, Microsoft, Cisco, etc., too.
> Another thought I had was the creation of a Computer Science certification.
> This certification would be more or less equivalent to a Computer Science
> degree in that the candidate would have to demonstrate thorough knowledge of
> calculus, C++, database design, networks, technical writing, etc. It would
> test a person on all the core topics of a traditional CS degree but would
> eliminate all the bunk (Speech, Drama, Fine Arts, Foreign Language, etc.).
> Plus it would allow folks who have acquired all the necessary qualifications
> of a CS degree to have a CS credential (again, a certificate--not a degree)
> without having to go back to school for four years (hard to do when you're
> already working a full-time profession). Yes, other community colleges and
> tech schools offer such certificates, but this one would be free.
>
> Once the independent certification authority got up and running and the word
> spread, companies from all over would begin recognizing these certificates
> as credible. That way those who don't want to shell out $10,000 for a
> certification can still qualify for job listings that say a certification is
> required.
>
> Thoughts?
> Norm
> This posting was submitted
> via the Web interface
>
>
> *************************************************************************************
> The message is intended for the named addressee only and may not be
> disclosed to or used by anyone else, nor may it be copied in any way.
>
> The contents of this message and its attachments are confidential and may
> also be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the named addressee
> and/or have received this message in error, please advise us by e-mailing
> security@colt.net and delete the message and any attachments without
> retaining any copies.
>
> Internet communications are not secure and COLT does not accept
> responsibility for this message, its contents nor responsibility for any
> viruses.
>
> No contracts can be created or varied on behalf of COLT Telecommunications,
> its subsidiaries or affiliates ("COLT") and any other party by email
> Communications unless expressly agreed in writing with such other party.
>
> Please note that incoming emails will be automatically scanned to eliminate
> potential viruses and unsolicited promotional emails. For more information
> refer to www.colt.net or contact us on +44(0)20 7390 3900.
> This posting was submitted
> via the Web interface
>
>
> Derek Berube
> Wildstar Technologies, LLC.
> 1453 Riverview Run Lane
> Suwanee, Georgia 30024
> (404) 444-5283
> http://www.wildstartech.com/
>
> AIM Handle: BerubeDB
> MSN Messenger: derekberube@hotmail.com
> Yahoo! Messenger: derekberube
> This posting was submitted
> via the Web interface


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

**

I agree. I checked the Remedy website today and their regular training classes appear to still cost $500 per day.



Andy L. Mayfield
System Operation Specialist
Alabama Power Company
Office: 8-226-1805






From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96 CG/SCTOA
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 8:14 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


**
Well, I checked the price this morning, and for the RSP bundle, the cost is $10,000. That's pretty steep to me, considering many folks already know most of the material presented in those classes. And if your employer doesn't pay for it, then what? You have to shell out the $10,000 yourself.

In my opinion, if this were a true professional certification program, Remedy would allow people to test for the certification without having taken any of Remedy's courses, like Microsoft does. It's clearly just a revenue generator for Remedy.

Personally, I don't see how an independent certification authority would be "unfair" to Remedy. If Remedy was concerned about being "fair," they would allow what I just mentioned.



From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Elrefaey, Ashraf
Sent: 04/11/2005 7:41 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


**
Hi Norm,

Have you looked at the remedy courses prices recently? - I know it's not the point but with prices getting lower and nice promotions most of the time I've decided to become an RSP and I'm half-way through it already.

I don't think having an independent certification authority will be fair for remedy, a company we all love ;-)

I agree with you though that remedy courses used to cost a lot but it's getting much better now.

Best regards,
Ash

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96 CG/SCTOA
Sent: 08 April 2005 20:50
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: OT: Independent Certification Authority



**
Listers:

I have an idea that's sort of related to the ongoing (and seemingly never-ending) phony RSP thread. I would like everyone's opinion of the idea of establishing an independent, "open," impartial, and virtually free certification body.

I know there are tons of folks out there--many on this list--that do not have RSPs but their knowledge of Remedy certainly warrants it. As another lister posted earlier, many of us (myself included) simply don't want to spend the ludicrous $10,000 to get a professional certification.

So here's my idea: Form our own certification authority. It would be completely open. It could be established as a nonprofit organization. To earn the certification there would be no mandatory classes--just a very comprehensive test. The test would be administered online, and results could be delivered instantly. Now in the first paragraph I said the certification would be virtually free. What I mean by that is, people wanting to take a cert would be required to make a $20-$100 donation. The donations would cover operating costs (web server, test development, certificate printing, etc.).

Remedy could be just one professional certification offered. The certification body could offer certs in Oracle, Microsoft, Cisco, etc., too. Another thought I had was the creation of a Computer Science certification. This certification would be more or less equivalent to a Computer Science degree in that the candidate would have to demonstrate thorough knowledge of calculus, C++, database design, networks, technical writing, etc. It would test a person on all the core topics of a traditional CS degree but would eliminate all the bunk (Speech, Drama, Fine Arts, Foreign Language, etc.). Plus it would allow folks who have acquired all the necessary qualifications of a CS degree to have a CS credential (again, a certificate--not a degree) without having to go back to school for four years (hard to do when you're already working a full-time profession). Yes, other community colleges and tech schools offer such certificates, but this one would be free.

Once the independent certification authority got up and running and the word spread, companies from all over would begin recognizing these certificates as credible. That way those who don't want to shell out $10,000 for a certification can still qualify for job listings that say a certification is required.

Thoughts?
Norm
This posting was submitted via the Web interface



*************************************************************************************
The message is intended for the named addressee only and may not be disclosed to or used by anyone else, nor may it be copied in any way.

The contents of this message and its attachments are confidential and may also be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the named addressee and/or have received this message in error, please advise us by e-mailing security@colt.net and delete the message and any attachments without retaining any copies.

Internet communications are not secure and COLT does not accept responsibility for this message, its contents nor responsibility for any viruses.

No contracts can be created or varied on behalf of COLT Telecommunications, its subsidiaries or affiliates ("COLT") and any other party by email Communications unless expressly agreed in writing with such other party.

Please note that incoming emails will be automatically scanned to eliminate potential viruses and unsolicited promotional emails. For more information refer to www.colt.net or contact us on +44(0)20 7390 3900.
This posting was submitted via the Web interface This posting was submitted via the Web interface

This posting was submitted via the Web interface

**
Definitely yes to the last two questions, if at all possible. I took copious notes on my laptop during the general sessions, then put it back in my room for the breakouts, for which we don't have desks generally. They hand out notes (PP slide printouts, usually) that you can take notes on for that, and you have the books of all the sessions as well.

Staying at the hotel makes it easier to be there from dawn to whenever. Generally, things get going about 7 - 7:30, and wrap up for the night around 11.

Look forward to seeing you there!

Rick



From: Thomas Altamore
Sent: Wed 4/13/2005 9:25 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


**
OK I'm definitely gonna have to watch you sing that song.
This is going to be the first time I make it to a RUG.
What would be some of the classes and seminars that
would be most beneficial? Should I bring a laptop?
Is it best to stay at the Hotel? I'm really looking foward to this.

Best Regards,
Tom Altamore

>>> dan.bloom@SYMPATICO.CA 4/13/2005 9:54:00 AM >>>

Chris,
Or was that the thought of both of us singing?
(does it to me).

You're part of it too.
... Daniel
ps. another incentive to be at RUG2005?
It's okay, I'll bring ear plugs :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Chris Woyton
Sent: April 12, 2005 23:13
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


Er...didn't like the specialty certification idea?

Or did the thought of Dan singing bring that on? ;)


--- Herb Partlow
wrote:

> Oh nooooooooooooooooo
>
> Sincerely
> Herb Partlow
> President/CEO
> IB Technical Consulting, Inc.
> (B) 408-253-0344
> (M) 408-309-5316
> Herb@ibtechnicalconsulting.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Chris
> Woyton
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 7:56 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
> The best part of RUG is hanging out with Gidd, Zandi
> and Daniel. You can't buy entertainment that good.
>
> Besides, Dan's singing this year.
>
> He promised.
>



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(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

This posting was submitted via the Web interface
This posting was submitted via the Web interface

Tom,

It is definitely better to stay at the hotel. You can justify it by not
having to rent a car. It is much easier to drop off materials, or to
freshen up every once in a while. It's kinda like working out of the
house...

You can attend the pre-RUG classes, but I found much of the information that
was shared there was also disseminated during RUG. If you are unfamiliar
with an area that you would like to be better acquainted with, you may want
to take the class offered before RUG since the session may be over your head
to gain much out of it.

You can bring a laptop if you find the need for staying current on e-mail,
but you probably don't want to bring it to the sessions since they are
usually very full, and you can do just as good or better of a job taking
notes and transferring them to documents later.

Regards,
Rick Ponzo
Integrits Corporation
ponzo@integrits.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Altamore"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


> ---------------------- Information from the mail
> header -----------------------
> Sender: "Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)"
>
> Poster: Thomas Altamore
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to
> consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to
> properly handle MIME multipart messages.
>
> --=PartC4E7D6F4.0=
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> OK I'm definitely gonna have to watch you sing that song.
> This is going to be the first time I make it to a RUG.
> What would be some of the classes and seminars that
> would be most beneficial? Should I bring a laptop?
> Is it best to stay at the Hotel? I'm really looking foward to this.
>
> Best Regards,
> Tom Altamore
>
>>>> dan.bloom@SYMPATICO.CA 4/13/2005 9:54:00 AM >>>
>
> Chris,
> Or was that the thought of both of us singing?
> (does it to me).
>
> You're part of it too.
> ... Daniel
> ps. another incentive to be at RUG2005?
> It's okay, I'll bring ear plugs :-)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Chris Woyton
> Sent: April 12, 2005 23:13
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
>
> Er...didn't like the specialty certification idea?
>
> Or did the thought of Dan singing bring that on? ;)
>
>
> --- Herb Partlow
> wrote:
>
>> Oh nooooooooooooooooo
>>
>> Sincerely
>> Herb Partlow
>> President/CEO
>> IB Technical Consulting, Inc.
>> (B) 408-253-0344
>> (M) 408-309-5316
>> Herb@ibtechnicalconsulting.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
>> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Chris
>> Woyton
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 7:56 PM
>> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
>> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>>
>> The best part of RUG is hanging out with Gidd, Zandi
>> and Daniel. You can't buy entertainment that good.
>>
>> Besides, Dan's singing this year.
>>
>> He promised.
>>
>
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
> --=PartC4E7D6F4.0=
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> **
>
> > charset=3Diso-8859-1"=
>>
>
>
>

OK I'm definitely gonna have to watch you sing that song.

>

This is going to be the first time I make it to a RUG.

>

What would be some of the classes and seminars that

>

would be most beneficial? Should I bring a laptop?

>

Is it best to stay at the Hotel? I'm really looking foward to =
> this.

>

 

>

Best Regards,

>

Tom Altamore

>>> dan.bloom@SYMPATICO.CA 4/13/2005 =
> 9:54:00 AM >>>

>

Chris,
Or was that the thought of both of
> =
> us singing?
(does it to me).

You're part of it too.
... =
> Daniel
ps. another incentive to be at RUG2005?
    =
> It's okay, I'll bring ear plugs :-)

-----Original
> Message-----
Fr=
> om: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[> href=3D"mailto:ar=
> slist@ARSLIST.ORG]On">mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Chris =
> Woyton
Sent: April 12, 2005 23:13
To:
> arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject:=
> Re: Independent Certification Authority


Er...didn't like the =
> specialty certification idea?

Or did the thought of Dan singing =
> bring that on? ;)


--- Herb Partlow
> <Herb@IBTECHNICALCONSULTIN=
> G.COM>
wrote:

> Oh nooooooooooooooooo
>
> =
> Sincerely
> Herb Partlow
> President/CEO
> IB Technical
> =
> Consulting, Inc.
> (B) 408-253-0344
> (M) 408-309-5316
>
> =
> Herb@ibtechnicalconsulting.com
>
>
> -----Original =
> Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion
> list(ARSList)> R>> [> href=3D"mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]">mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]=
> On Behalf Of Chris
> Woyton
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, =
> 2005 7:56 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: =
> Independent Certification Authority
>
> The best part of RUG =
> is hanging out with Gidd, Zandi
> and Daniel. You can't buy =
> entertainment that good.
>
> Besides, Dan's singing this =
> year.
>
> He
> promised.
>
<snip>

=
>
U=
> NSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at > href=3D"http://www.ARSLIST.org"=
>>http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: >>href=3D"mailto:support@arslist.=
> org)">mailto:support@arslist.org)

> This posting was submitted via the Web
> interface
>
> --=PartC4E7D6F4.0=--
>
>


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

**
It's just not only the classes, but the locations!

At least MS you can take the tests & courses in just about all major cities. So that might be another 10k just in incurred expenses on top of the courses itself if you have to travel.

Den




From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96 CG/SCTOA
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 7:14 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


**
Well, I checked the price this morning, and for the RSP bundle, the cost is $10,000. That's pretty steep to me, considering many folks already know most of the material presented in those classes. And if your employer doesn't pay for it, then what? You have to shell out the $10,000 yourself.

In my opinion, if this were a true professional certification program, Remedy would allow people to test for the certification without having taken any of Remedy's courses, like Microsoft does. It's clearly just a revenue generator for Remedy.

Personally, I don't see how an independent certification authority would be "unfair" to Remedy. If Remedy was concerned about being "fair," they would allow what I just mentioned.



From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Elrefaey, Ashraf
Sent: 04/11/2005 7:41 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


**
Hi Norm,

Have you looked at the remedy courses prices recently? - I know it's not the point but with prices getting lower and nice promotions most of the time I've decided to become an RSP and I'm half-way through it already.

I don't think having an independent certification authority will be fair for remedy, a company we all love ;-)

I agree with you though that remedy courses used to cost a lot but it's getting much better now.

Best regards,
Ash

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96 CG/SCTOA
Sent: 08 April 2005 20:50
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: OT: Independent Certification Authority



**
Listers:

I have an idea that's sort of related to the ongoing (and seemingly never-ending) phony RSP thread. I would like everyone's opinion of the idea of establishing an independent, "open," impartial, and virtually free certification body.

I know there are tons of folks out there--many on this list--that do not have RSPs but their knowledge of Remedy certainly warrants it. As another lister posted earlier, many of us (myself included) simply don't want to spend the ludicrous $10,000 to get a professional certification.

So here's my idea: Form our own certification authority. It would be completely open. It could be established as a nonprofit organization. To earn the certification there would be no mandatory classes--just a very comprehensive test. The test would be administered online, and results could be delivered instantly. Now in the first paragraph I said the certification would be virtually free. What I mean by that is, people wanting to take a cert would be required to make a $20-$100 donation. The donations would cover operating costs (web server, test development, certificate printing, etc.).

Remedy could be just one professional certification offered. The certification body could offer certs in Oracle, Microsoft, Cisco, etc., too. Another thought I had was the creation of a Computer Science certification. This certification would be more or less equivalent to a Computer Science degree in that the candidate would have to demonstrate thorough knowledge of calculus, C++, database design, networks, technical writing, etc. It would test a person on all the core topics of a traditional CS degree but would eliminate all the bunk (Speech, Drama, Fine Arts, Foreign Language, etc.). Plus it would allow folks who have acquired all the necessary qualifications of a CS degree to have a CS credential (again, a certificate--not a degree) without having to go back to school for four years (hard to do when you're already working a full-time profession). Yes, other community colleges and tech schools offer such certificates, but this one would be free.

Once the independent certification authority got up and running and the word spread, companies from all over would begin recognizing these certificates as credible. That way those who don't want to shell out $10,000 for a certification can still qualify for job listings that say a certification is required.

Thoughts?
Norm
This posting was submitted via the Web interface



*************************************************************************************
The message is intended for the named addressee only and may not be disclosed to or used by anyone else, nor may it be copied in any way.

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Internet communications are not secure and COLT does not accept responsibility for this message, its contents nor responsibility for any viruses.

No contracts can be created or varied on behalf of COLT Telecommunications, its subsidiaries or affiliates ("COLT") and any other party by email Communications unless expressly agreed in writing with such other party.

Please note that incoming emails will be automatically scanned to eliminate potential viruses and unsolicited promotional emails. For more information refer to www.colt.net or contact us on +44(0)20 7390 3900.
This posting was submitted via the Web interface This posting was submitted via the Web interface

This posting was submitted via the Web interface

But, there is a HUGE difference in market size between MS products and
BMC/Remedy. It's just not cost effective to offer classes at that
level.

Remedy has done a better job in the US over the last 5 years in trying
to offer more classes in more locations. But we're just never going
to see that many of them because the demand isn't there.

Warren


On Apr 12, 2005 8:09 AM, Fong, Den wrote:
> **
> It's just not only the classes, but the locations!
>
> At least MS you can take the tests & courses in just about all major cities.
> So that might be another 10k just in incurred expenses on top of the
> courses itself if you have to travel.
>
> Den
>
>
>
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96 CG/SCTOA
> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 7:14 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
> **
> Well, I checked the price this morning, and for the RSP bundle, the cost is
> $10,000. That's pretty steep to me, considering many folks already know
> most of the material presented in those classes. And if your employer
> doesn't pay for it, then what? You have to shell out the $10,000 yourself.
>
> In my opinion, if this were a true professional certification program,
> Remedy would allow people to test for the certification without having taken
> any of Remedy's courses, like Microsoft does. It's clearly just a revenue
> generator for Remedy.
>
> Personally, I don't see how an independent certification authority would be
> "unfair" to Remedy. If Remedy was concerned about being "fair," they would
> allow what I just mentioned.
>
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Elrefaey, Ashraf
> Sent: 04/11/2005 7:41 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
> **
> Hi Norm,
>
> Have you looked at the remedy courses prices recently? - I know it's not the
> point but with prices getting lower and nice promotions most of the time
> I've decided to become an RSP and I'm half-way through it already.
>
> I don't think having an independent certification authority will be fair for
> remedy, a company we all love ;-)
>
> I agree with you though that remedy courses used to cost a lot but it's
> getting much better now.
>
> Best regards,
> Ash
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96 CG/SCTOA
> Sent: 08 April 2005 20:50
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: OT: Independent Certification Authority
>
> **
> Listers:
>
> I have an idea that's sort of related to the ongoing (and seemingly
> never-ending) phony RSP thread. I would like everyone's opinion of the idea
> of establishing an independent, "open," impartial, and virtually free
> certification body.
>
> I know there are tons of folks out there--many on this list--that do not
> have RSPs but their knowledge of Remedy certainly warrants it. As another
> lister posted earlier, many of us (myself included) simply don't want to
> spend the ludicrous $10,000 to get a professional certification.
>
> So here's my idea: Form our own certification authority. It would be
> completely open. It could be established as a nonprofit organization. To
> earn the certification there would be no mandatory classes--just a very
> comprehensive test. The test would be administered online, and results
> could be delivered instantly. Now in the first paragraph I said the
> certification would be virtually free. What I mean by that is, people
> wanting to take a cert would be required to make a $20-$100 donation. The
> donations would cover operating costs (web server, test development,
> certificate printing, etc.).
>
> Remedy could be just one professional certification offered. The
> certification body could offer certs in Oracle, Microsoft, Cisco, etc., too.
> Another thought I had was the creation of a Computer Science certification.
> This certification would be more or less equivalent to a Computer Science
> degree in that the candidate would have to demonstrate thorough knowledge of
> calculus, C++, database design, networks, technical writing, etc. It would
> test a person on all the core topics of a traditional CS degree but would
> eliminate all the bunk (Speech, Drama, Fine Arts, Foreign Language, etc.).
> Plus it would allow folks who have acquired all the necessary qualifications
> of a CS degree to have a CS credential (again, a certificate--not a degree)
> without having to go back to school for four years (hard to do when you're
> already working a full-time profession). Yes, other community colleges and
> tech schools offer such certificates, but this one would be free.
>
> Once the independent certification authority got up and running and the word
> spread, companies from all over would begin recognizing these certificates
> as credible. That way those who don't want to shell out $10,000 for a
> certification can still qualify for job listings that say a certification is
> required.
>
> Thoughts?
> NormThis posting was
> submitted via the Web interface
>
> *************************************************************************************
> The message is intended for the named addressee only and may not be
> disclosed to or used by anyone else, nor may it be copied in any way.
>
> The contents of this message and its attachments are confidential and may
> also be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the named addressee
> and/or have received this message in error, please advise us by e-mailing
> security@colt.net and delete the message and any attachments without
> retaining any copies.
>
> Internet communications are not secure and COLT does not accept
> responsibility for this message, its contents nor responsibility for any
> viruses.
>
> No contracts can be created or varied on behalf of COLT Telecommunications,
> its subsidiaries or affiliates ("COLT") and any other party by email
> Communications unless expressly agreed in writing with such other party.
>
> Please note that incoming emails will be automatically scanned to eliminate
> potential viruses and unsolicited promotional emails. For more information
> refer to www.colt.net or contact us on +44(0)20 7390 3900.
> This posting was submitted
> via the Web interface This
> posting was submitted via the Web interface
> This posting was submitted
> via the Web interface


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

It is true that the MS & Remedy have a different size audience, but
being in the west side of Canada the offerings are slim. I remember
they used to have course offered through a place in Calgary.

It's hard enough to get approval to take anything out of province, but
to go outside of Canada is next to impossible. It's just my rant.


-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Warren Baltimore
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 9:33 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority

But, there is a HUGE difference in market size between MS products and
BMC/Remedy. It's just not cost effective to offer classes at that
level.

Remedy has done a better job in the US over the last 5 years in trying
to offer more classes in more locations. But we're just never going to
see that many of them because the demand isn't there.

Warren


On Apr 12, 2005 8:09 AM, Fong, Den wrote:
> **
> It's just not only the classes, but the locations!
>
> At least MS you can take the tests & courses in just about all major
cities.
> So that might be another 10k just in incurred expenses on top of the
> courses itself if you have to travel.
>
> Den
>
>
>
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96
> CG/SCTOA
> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 7:14 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
> **
> Well, I checked the price this morning, and for the RSP bundle, the
> cost is $10,000. That's pretty steep to me, considering many folks
> already know most of the material presented in those classes. And if
> your employer doesn't pay for it, then what? You have to shell out the
$10,000 yourself.
>
> In my opinion, if this were a true professional certification program,

> Remedy would allow people to test for the certification without having

> taken any of Remedy's courses, like Microsoft does. It's clearly just

> a revenue generator for Remedy.
>
> Personally, I don't see how an independent certification authority
> would be "unfair" to Remedy. If Remedy was concerned about being
> "fair," they would allow what I just mentioned.
>
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Elrefaey, Ashraf
> Sent: 04/11/2005 7:41 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
> **
> Hi Norm,
>
> Have you looked at the remedy courses prices recently? - I know it's
> not the point but with prices getting lower and nice promotions most
> of the time I've decided to become an RSP and I'm half-way through it
already.
>
> I don't think having an independent certification authority will be
> fair for remedy, a company we all love ;-)
>
> I agree with you though that remedy courses used to cost a lot but
> it's getting much better now.
>
> Best regards,
> Ash
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96
> CG/SCTOA
> Sent: 08 April 2005 20:50
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: OT: Independent Certification Authority
>
> **
> Listers:
>
> I have an idea that's sort of related to the ongoing (and seemingly
> never-ending) phony RSP thread. I would like everyone's opinion of
> the idea of establishing an independent, "open," impartial, and
> virtually free certification body.
>
> I know there are tons of folks out there--many on this list--that do
> not have RSPs but their knowledge of Remedy certainly warrants it. As

> another lister posted earlier, many of us (myself included) simply
> don't want to spend the ludicrous $10,000 to get a professional
certification.
>
> So here's my idea: Form our own certification authority. It would be
> completely open. It could be established as a nonprofit organization.

> To earn the certification there would be no mandatory classes--just a
> very comprehensive test. The test would be administered online, and
> results could be delivered instantly. Now in the first paragraph I
> said the certification would be virtually free. What I mean by that
> is, people wanting to take a cert would be required to make a $20-$100

> donation. The donations would cover operating costs (web server, test

> development, certificate printing, etc.).
>
> Remedy could be just one professional certification offered. The
> certification body could offer certs in Oracle, Microsoft, Cisco,
etc., too.
> Another thought I had was the creation of a Computer Science
certification.
> This certification would be more or less equivalent to a Computer
> Science degree in that the candidate would have to demonstrate
> thorough knowledge of calculus, C++, database design, networks,
> technical writing, etc. It would test a person on all the core topics

> of a traditional CS degree but would eliminate all the bunk (Speech,
Drama, Fine Arts, Foreign Language, etc.).
> Plus it would allow folks who have acquired all the necessary
> qualifications of a CS degree to have a CS credential (again, a
> certificate--not a degree) without having to go back to school for
> four years (hard to do when you're already working a full-time
> profession). Yes, other community colleges and tech schools offer
such certificates, but this one would be free.
>
> Once the independent certification authority got up and running and
> the word spread, companies from all over would begin recognizing these

> certificates as credible. That way those who don't want to shell out
> $10,000 for a certification can still qualify for job listings that
> say a certification is required.
>
> Thoughts?
> NormThis posting was submitted via the
> Web interface
>
> **********************************************************************
> *************** The message is intended for the named addressee only
> and may not be disclosed to or used by anyone else, nor may it be
> copied in any way.
>
> The contents of this message and its attachments are confidential and
> may also be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the named
> addressee and/or have received this message in error, please advise us

> by e-mailing security@colt.net and delete the message and any
> attachments without retaining any copies.
>
> Internet communications are not secure and COLT does not accept
> responsibility for this message, its contents nor responsibility for
> any viruses.
>
> No contracts can be created or varied on behalf of COLT
> Telecommunications, its subsidiaries or affiliates ("COLT") and any
> other party by email Communications unless expressly agreed in writing
with such other party.
>
> Please note that incoming emails will be automatically scanned to
> eliminate potential viruses and unsolicited promotional emails. For
> more information refer to www.colt.net or contact us on +44(0)20 7390
3900.
> This posting was submitted via the Web
> interface This
> posting was submitted via the Web interface
> This posting was submitted via the Web
> interface


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my own.



UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

What about traveling classes that touch the major cities several times per
year? Or maybe associate them with major RUG events across the country.

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Fong, Den
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 10:57 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority

It is true that the MS & Remedy have a different size audience, but
being in the west side of Canada the offerings are slim. I remember
they used to have course offered through a place in Calgary.

It's hard enough to get approval to take anything out of province, but
to go outside of Canada is next to impossible. It's just my rant.


-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Warren Baltimore
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 9:33 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority

But, there is a HUGE difference in market size between MS products and
BMC/Remedy. It's just not cost effective to offer classes at that
level.

Remedy has done a better job in the US over the last 5 years in trying
to offer more classes in more locations. But we're just never going to
see that many of them because the demand isn't there.

Warren


On Apr 12, 2005 8:09 AM, Fong, Den wrote:
> **
> It's just not only the classes, but the locations!
>
> At least MS you can take the tests & courses in just about all major
cities.
> So that might be another 10k just in incurred expenses on top of the
> courses itself if you have to travel.
>
> Den
>
>
>
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96
> CG/SCTOA
> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 7:14 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
> **
> Well, I checked the price this morning, and for the RSP bundle, the
> cost is $10,000. That's pretty steep to me, considering many folks
> already know most of the material presented in those classes. And if
> your employer doesn't pay for it, then what? You have to shell out the
$10,000 yourself.
>
> In my opinion, if this were a true professional certification program,

> Remedy would allow people to test for the certification without having

> taken any of Remedy's courses, like Microsoft does. It's clearly just

> a revenue generator for Remedy.
>
> Personally, I don't see how an independent certification authority
> would be "unfair" to Remedy. If Remedy was concerned about being
> "fair," they would allow what I just mentioned.
>
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Elrefaey, Ashraf
> Sent: 04/11/2005 7:41 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
> **
> Hi Norm,
>
> Have you looked at the remedy courses prices recently? - I know it's
> not the point but with prices getting lower and nice promotions most
> of the time I've decided to become an RSP and I'm half-way through it
already.
>
> I don't think having an independent certification authority will be
> fair for remedy, a company we all love ;-)
>
> I agree with you though that remedy courses used to cost a lot but
> it's getting much better now.
>
> Best regards,
> Ash
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96
> CG/SCTOA
> Sent: 08 April 2005 20:50
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: OT: Independent Certification Authority
>
> **
> Listers:
>
> I have an idea that's sort of related to the ongoing (and seemingly
> never-ending) phony RSP thread. I would like everyone's opinion of
> the idea of establishing an independent, "open," impartial, and
> virtually free certification body.
>
> I know there are tons of folks out there--many on this list--that do
> not have RSPs but their knowledge of Remedy certainly warrants it. As

> another lister posted earlier, many of us (myself included) simply
> don't want to spend the ludicrous $10,000 to get a professional
certification.
>
> So here's my idea: Form our own certification authority. It would be
> completely open. It could be established as a nonprofit organization.

> To earn the certification there would be no mandatory classes--just a
> very comprehensive test. The test would be administered online, and
> results could be delivered instantly. Now in the first paragraph I
> said the certification would be virtually free. What I mean by that
> is, people wanting to take a cert would be required to make a $20-$100

> donation. The donations would cover operating costs (web server, test

> development, certificate printing, etc.).
>
> Remedy could be just one professional certification offered. The
> certification body could offer certs in Oracle, Microsoft, Cisco,
etc., too.
> Another thought I had was the creation of a Computer Science
certification.
> This certification would be more or less equivalent to a Computer
> Science degree in that the candidate would have to demonstrate
> thorough knowledge of calculus, C++, database design, networks,
> technical writing, etc. It would test a person on all the core topics

> of a traditional CS degree but would eliminate all the bunk (Speech,
Drama, Fine Arts, Foreign Language, etc.).
> Plus it would allow folks who have acquired all the necessary
> qualifications of a CS degree to have a CS credential (again, a
> certificate--not a degree) without having to go back to school for
> four years (hard to do when you're already working a full-time
> profession). Yes, other community colleges and tech schools offer
such certificates, but this one would be free.
>
> Once the independent certification authority got up and running and
> the word spread, companies from all over would begin recognizing these

> certificates as credible. That way those who don't want to shell out
> $10,000 for a certification can still qualify for job listings that
> say a certification is required.
>
> Thoughts?
> NormThis posting was submitted via the
> Web interface
>
> **********************************************************************
> *************** The message is intended for the named addressee only
> and may not be disclosed to or used by anyone else, nor may it be
> copied in any way.
>
> The contents of this message and its attachments are confidential and
> may also be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the named
> addressee and/or have received this message in error, please advise us

> by e-mailing security@colt.net and delete the message and any
> attachments without retaining any copies.
>
> Internet communications are not secure and COLT does not accept
> responsibility for this message, its contents nor responsibility for
> any viruses.
>
> No contracts can be created or varied on behalf of COLT
> Telecommunications, its subsidiaries or affiliates ("COLT") and any
> other party by email Communications unless expressly agreed in writing
with such other party.
>
> Please note that incoming emails will be automatically scanned to
> eliminate potential viruses and unsolicited promotional emails. For
> more information refer to www.colt.net or contact us on +44(0)20 7390
3900.
> This posting was submitted via the Web
> interface This
> posting was submitted via the Web interface
> This posting was submitted via the Web
> interface


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my own.



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Not possible,

This year it was RUG or a class, I voted for the RUG so there is not
chance for anything else, and that's every other year.

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of David Charters
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 10:18 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority

What about traveling classes that touch the major cities several times
per year? Or maybe associate them with major RUG events across the
country.

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Fong, Den
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 10:57 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority

It is true that the MS & Remedy have a different size audience, but
being in the west side of Canada the offerings are slim. I remember
they used to have course offered through a place in Calgary.

It's hard enough to get approval to take anything out of province, but
to go outside of Canada is next to impossible. It's just my rant.


-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Warren Baltimore
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 9:33 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority

But, there is a HUGE difference in market size between MS products and
BMC/Remedy. It's just not cost effective to offer classes at that
level.

Remedy has done a better job in the US over the last 5 years in trying
to offer more classes in more locations. But we're just never going to
see that many of them because the demand isn't there.

Warren


On Apr 12, 2005 8:09 AM, Fong, Den wrote:
> **
> It's just not only the classes, but the locations!
>
> At least MS you can take the tests & courses in just about all major
cities.
> So that might be another 10k just in incurred expenses on top of the
> courses itself if you have to travel.
>
> Den
>
>
>
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96
> CG/SCTOA
> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 7:14 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
> **
> Well, I checked the price this morning, and for the RSP bundle, the
> cost is $10,000. That's pretty steep to me, considering many folks
> already know most of the material presented in those classes. And if
> your employer doesn't pay for it, then what? You have to shell out the
$10,000 yourself.
>
> In my opinion, if this were a true professional certification program,

> Remedy would allow people to test for the certification without having

> taken any of Remedy's courses, like Microsoft does. It's clearly just

> a revenue generator for Remedy.
>
> Personally, I don't see how an independent certification authority
> would be "unfair" to Remedy. If Remedy was concerned about being
> "fair," they would allow what I just mentioned.
>
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Elrefaey, Ashraf
> Sent: 04/11/2005 7:41 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
> **
> Hi Norm,
>
> Have you looked at the remedy courses prices recently? - I know it's
> not the point but with prices getting lower and nice promotions most
> of the time I've decided to become an RSP and I'm half-way through it
already.
>
> I don't think having an independent certification authority will be
> fair for remedy, a company we all love ;-)
>
> I agree with you though that remedy courses used to cost a lot but
> it's getting much better now.
>
> Best regards,
> Ash
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96
> CG/SCTOA
> Sent: 08 April 2005 20:50
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: OT: Independent Certification Authority
>
> **
> Listers:
>
> I have an idea that's sort of related to the ongoing (and seemingly
> never-ending) phony RSP thread. I would like everyone's opinion of
> the idea of establishing an independent, "open," impartial, and
> virtually free certification body.
>
> I know there are tons of folks out there--many on this list--that do
> not have RSPs but their knowledge of Remedy certainly warrants it. As

> another lister posted earlier, many of us (myself included) simply
> don't want to spend the ludicrous $10,000 to get a professional
certification.
>
> So here's my idea: Form our own certification authority. It would be
> completely open. It could be established as a nonprofit organization.

> To earn the certification there would be no mandatory classes--just a
> very comprehensive test. The test would be administered online, and
> results could be delivered instantly. Now in the first paragraph I
> said the certification would be virtually free. What I mean by that
> is, people wanting to take a cert would be required to make a $20-$100

> donation. The donations would cover operating costs (web server, test

> development, certificate printing, etc.).
>
> Remedy could be just one professional certification offered. The
> certification body could offer certs in Oracle, Microsoft, Cisco,
etc., too.
> Another thought I had was the creation of a Computer Science
certification.
> This certification would be more or less equivalent to a Computer
> Science degree in that the candidate would have to demonstrate
> thorough knowledge of calculus, C++, database design, networks,
> technical writing, etc. It would test a person on all the core topics

> of a traditional CS degree but would eliminate all the bunk (Speech,
Drama, Fine Arts, Foreign Language, etc.).
> Plus it would allow folks who have acquired all the necessary
> qualifications of a CS degree to have a CS credential (again, a
> certificate--not a degree) without having to go back to school for
> four years (hard to do when you're already working a full-time
> profession). Yes, other community colleges and tech schools offer
such certificates, but this one would be free.
>
> Once the independent certification authority got up and running and
> the word spread, companies from all over would begin recognizing these

> certificates as credible. That way those who don't want to shell out
> $10,000 for a certification can still qualify for job listings that
> say a certification is required.
>
> Thoughts?
> NormThis posting was submitted via the
> Web interface
>
> **********************************************************************
> *************** The message is intended for the named addressee only
> and may not be disclosed to or used by anyone else, nor may it be
> copied in any way.
>
> The contents of this message and its attachments are confidential and
> may also be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the named
> addressee and/or have received this message in error, please advise us

> by e-mailing security@colt.net and delete the message and any
> attachments without retaining any copies.
>
> Internet communications are not secure and COLT does not accept
> responsibility for this message, its contents nor responsibility for
> any viruses.
>
> No contracts can be created or varied on behalf of COLT
> Telecommunications, its subsidiaries or affiliates ("COLT") and any
> other party by email Communications unless expressly agreed in writing
with such other party.
>
> Please note that incoming emails will be automatically scanned to
> eliminate potential viruses and unsolicited promotional emails. For
> more information refer to www.colt.net or contact us on +44(0)20 7390
3900.
> This posting was submitted via the Web
> interface This
> posting was submitted via the Web interface
> This posting was submitted via the Web
> interface


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my own.



UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)




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Does anything worthwhile happen at the RUG's? I have never really given
much thought to attending one.


>Andy L. Mayfield
>System Operation Specialist
>Alabama Power Company
Office: 8-226-1805


-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Fong, Den
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 1:32 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority

Not possible,

This year it was RUG or a class, I voted for the RUG so there is not
chance for anything else, and that's every other year.

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of David Charters
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 10:18 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority

What about traveling classes that touch the major cities several times
per year? Or maybe associate them with major RUG events across the
country.

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Fong, Den
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 10:57 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority

It is true that the MS & Remedy have a different size audience, but
being in the west side of Canada the offerings are slim. I remember
they used to have course offered through a place in Calgary.

It's hard enough to get approval to take anything out of province, but
to go outside of Canada is next to impossible. It's just my rant.


-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Warren Baltimore
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 9:33 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority

But, there is a HUGE difference in market size between MS products and
BMC/Remedy. It's just not cost effective to offer classes at that
level.

Remedy has done a better job in the US over the last 5 years in trying
to offer more classes in more locations. But we're just never going to
see that many of them because the demand isn't there.

Warren


On Apr 12, 2005 8:09 AM, Fong, Den wrote:
> **
> It's just not only the classes, but the locations!
>
> At least MS you can take the tests & courses in just about all major
cities.
> So that might be another 10k just in incurred expenses on top of the
> courses itself if you have to travel.
>
> Den
>
>
>
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96
> CG/SCTOA
> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 7:14 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
> **
> Well, I checked the price this morning, and for the RSP bundle, the
> cost is $10,000. That's pretty steep to me, considering many folks
> already know most of the material presented in those classes. And if
> your employer doesn't pay for it, then what? You have to shell out the
$10,000 yourself.
>
> In my opinion, if this were a true professional certification program,

> Remedy would allow people to test for the certification without having

> taken any of Remedy's courses, like Microsoft does. It's clearly just

> a revenue generator for Remedy.
>
> Personally, I don't see how an independent certification authority
> would be "unfair" to Remedy. If Remedy was concerned about being
> "fair," they would allow what I just mentioned.
>
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Elrefaey, Ashraf
> Sent: 04/11/2005 7:41 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
> **
> Hi Norm,
>
> Have you looked at the remedy courses prices recently? - I know it's
> not the point but with prices getting lower and nice promotions most
> of the time I've decided to become an RSP and I'm half-way through it
already.
>
> I don't think having an independent certification authority will be
> fair for remedy, a company we all love ;-)
>
> I agree with you though that remedy courses used to cost a lot but
> it's getting much better now.
>
> Best regards,
> Ash
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96
> CG/SCTOA
> Sent: 08 April 2005 20:50
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: OT: Independent Certification Authority
>
> **
> Listers:
>
> I have an idea that's sort of related to the ongoing (and seemingly
> never-ending) phony RSP thread. I would like everyone's opinion of
> the idea of establishing an independent, "open," impartial, and
> virtually free certification body.
>
> I know there are tons of folks out there--many on this list--that do
> not have RSPs but their knowledge of Remedy certainly warrants it. As

> another lister posted earlier, many of us (myself included) simply
> don't want to spend the ludicrous $10,000 to get a professional
certification.
>
> So here's my idea: Form our own certification authority. It would be
> completely open. It could be established as a nonprofit organization.

> To earn the certification there would be no mandatory classes--just a
> very comprehensive test. The test would be administered online, and
> results could be delivered instantly. Now in the first paragraph I
> said the certification would be virtually free. What I mean by that
> is, people wanting to take a cert would be required to make a $20-$100

> donation. The donations would cover operating costs (web server, test

> development, certificate printing, etc.).
>
> Remedy could be just one professional certification offered. The
> certification body could offer certs in Oracle, Microsoft, Cisco,
etc., too.
> Another thought I had was the creation of a Computer Science
certification.
> This certification would be more or less equivalent to a Computer
> Science degree in that the candidate would have to demonstrate
> thorough knowledge of calculus, C++, database design, networks,
> technical writing, etc. It would test a person on all the core topics

> of a traditional CS degree but would eliminate all the bunk (Speech,
Drama, Fine Arts, Foreign Language, etc.).
> Plus it would allow folks who have acquired all the necessary
> qualifications of a CS degree to have a CS credential (again, a
> certificate--not a degree) without having to go back to school for
> four years (hard to do when you're already working a full-time
> profession). Yes, other community colleges and tech schools offer
such certificates, but this one would be free.
>
> Once the independent certification authority got up and running and
> the word spread, companies from all over would begin recognizing these

> certificates as credible. That way those who don't want to shell out
> $10,000 for a certification can still qualify for job listings that
> say a certification is required.
>
> Thoughts?
> NormThis posting was submitted via the
> Web interface
>
> **********************************************************************
> *************** The message is intended for the named addressee only
> and may not be disclosed to or used by anyone else, nor may it be
> copied in any way.
>
> The contents of this message and its attachments are confidential and
> may also be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the named
> addressee and/or have received this message in error, please advise us

> by e-mailing security@colt.net and delete the message and any
> attachments without retaining any copies.
>
> Internet communications are not secure and COLT does not accept
> responsibility for this message, its contents nor responsibility for
> any viruses.
>
> No contracts can be created or varied on behalf of COLT
> Telecommunications, its subsidiaries or affiliates ("COLT") and any
> other party by email Communications unless expressly agreed in writing
with such other party.
>
> Please note that incoming emails will be automatically scanned to
> eliminate potential viruses and unsolicited promotional emails. For
> more information refer to www.colt.net or contact us on +44(0)20 7390
3900.
> This posting was submitted via the Web
> interface This
> posting was submitted via the Web interface
> This posting was submitted via the Web
> interface


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my own.



UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)




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(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)



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I know I've heard several others state that they would choose RUG over
a course any day. Is the experience and knowledge gained from RUG
greatly superior over learning information in a class (it sounds more
fun than sitting in class that's for sure)? I'm still fairly new to
the Remedy world. Also, the course would be a few hours drive away,
while RUG would require airfare across the country. The single course
would also be a little cheaper (Performance Tuning & Troubleshooting)
than RUG. I've heard good stuff about PT&T. Any input regarding that
class vs RUG? Something to persuade my supervisor perhaps?

Jon

On Apr 12, 2005 2:31 PM, Fong, Den wrote:
> Not possible,
>
> This year it was RUG or a class, I voted for the RUG so there is not
> chance for anything else, and that's every other year.
>


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

My experience is that it depends. Some are very informative and great
networking opportunities, others are little more than sales forums.

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Mayfield, Andy L.
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 2:00 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority

Does anything worthwhile happen at the RUG's? I have never really given
much thought to attending one.


>Andy L. Mayfield
>System Operation Specialist
>Alabama Power Company
Office: 8-226-1805


-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Fong, Den
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 1:32 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority

Not possible,

This year it was RUG or a class, I voted for the RUG so there is not
chance for anything else, and that's every other year.

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of David Charters
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 10:18 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority

What about traveling classes that touch the major cities several times
per year? Or maybe associate them with major RUG events across the
country.

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Fong, Den
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 10:57 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority

It is true that the MS & Remedy have a different size audience, but
being in the west side of Canada the offerings are slim. I remember
they used to have course offered through a place in Calgary.

It's hard enough to get approval to take anything out of province, but
to go outside of Canada is next to impossible. It's just my rant.


-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Warren Baltimore
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 9:33 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority

But, there is a HUGE difference in market size between MS products and
BMC/Remedy. It's just not cost effective to offer classes at that
level.

Remedy has done a better job in the US over the last 5 years in trying
to offer more classes in more locations. But we're just never going to
see that many of them because the demand isn't there.

Warren


On Apr 12, 2005 8:09 AM, Fong, Den wrote:
> **
> It's just not only the classes, but the locations!
>
> At least MS you can take the tests & courses in just about all major
cities.
> So that might be another 10k just in incurred expenses on top of the
> courses itself if you have to travel.
>
> Den
>
>
>
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96
> CG/SCTOA
> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 7:14 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
> **
> Well, I checked the price this morning, and for the RSP bundle, the
> cost is $10,000. That's pretty steep to me, considering many folks
> already know most of the material presented in those classes. And if
> your employer doesn't pay for it, then what? You have to shell out the
$10,000 yourself.
>
> In my opinion, if this were a true professional certification program,

> Remedy would allow people to test for the certification without having

> taken any of Remedy's courses, like Microsoft does. It's clearly just

> a revenue generator for Remedy.
>
> Personally, I don't see how an independent certification authority
> would be "unfair" to Remedy. If Remedy was concerned about being
> "fair," they would allow what I just mentioned.
>
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Elrefaey, Ashraf
> Sent: 04/11/2005 7:41 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
> **
> Hi Norm,
>
> Have you looked at the remedy courses prices recently? - I know it's
> not the point but with prices getting lower and nice promotions most
> of the time I've decided to become an RSP and I'm half-way through it
already.
>
> I don't think having an independent certification authority will be
> fair for remedy, a company we all love ;-)
>
> I agree with you though that remedy courses used to cost a lot but
> it's getting much better now.
>
> Best regards,
> Ash
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96
> CG/SCTOA
> Sent: 08 April 2005 20:50
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: OT: Independent Certification Authority
>
> **
> Listers:
>
> I have an idea that's sort of related to the ongoing (and seemingly
> never-ending) phony RSP thread. I would like everyone's opinion of
> the idea of establishing an independent, "open," impartial, and
> virtually free certification body.
>
> I know there are tons of folks out there--many on this list--that do
> not have RSPs but their knowledge of Remedy certainly warrants it. As

> another lister posted earlier, many of us (myself included) simply
> don't want to spend the ludicrous $10,000 to get a professional
certification.
>
> So here's my idea: Form our own certification authority. It would be
> completely open. It could be established as a nonprofit organization.

> To earn the certification there would be no mandatory classes--just a
> very comprehensive test. The test would be administered online, and
> results could be delivered instantly. Now in the first paragraph I
> said the certification would be virtually free. What I mean by that
> is, people wanting to take a cert would be required to make a $20-$100

> donation. The donations would cover operating costs (web server, test

> development, certificate printing, etc.).
>
> Remedy could be just one professional certification offered. The
> certification body could offer certs in Oracle, Microsoft, Cisco,
etc., too.
> Another thought I had was the creation of a Computer Science
certification.
> This certification would be more or less equivalent to a Computer
> Science degree in that the candidate would have to demonstrate
> thorough knowledge of calculus, C++, database design, networks,
> technical writing, etc. It would test a person on all the core topics

> of a traditional CS degree but would eliminate all the bunk (Speech,
Drama, Fine Arts, Foreign Language, etc.).
> Plus it would allow folks who have acquired all the necessary
> qualifications of a CS degree to have a CS credential (again, a
> certificate--not a degree) without having to go back to school for
> four years (hard to do when you're already working a full-time
> profession). Yes, other community colleges and tech schools offer
such certificates, but this one would be free.
>
> Once the independent certification authority got up and running and
> the word spread, companies from all over would begin recognizing these

> certificates as credible. That way those who don't want to shell out
> $10,000 for a certification can still qualify for job listings that
> say a certification is required.
>
> Thoughts?
> NormThis posting was submitted via the
> Web interface
>
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> This posting was submitted via the Web
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> posting was submitted via the Web interface
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--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my own.



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**
The PT&T course is the best of them, IMO. I think you would gain lots from it. However, would you gain more from talking to the actual engineers at RUG? They do that Tuesday evening.

Rick



From: Jon Chau
Sent: Tue 4/12/2005 12:05 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


I know I've heard several others state that they would choose RUG over
a course any day. Is the experience and knowledge gained from RUG
greatly superior over learning information in a class (it sounds more
fun than sitting in class that's for sure)? I'm still fairly new to
the Remedy world. Also, the course would be a few hours drive away,
while RUG would require airfare across the country. The single course
would also be a little cheaper (Performance Tuning & Troubleshooting)
than RUG. I've heard good stuff about PT&T. Any input regarding that
class vs RUG? Something to persuade my supervisor perhaps?

Jon

On Apr 12, 2005 2:31 PM, Fong, Den wrote:
> Not possible,
>
> This year it was RUG or a class, I voted for the RUG so there is not
> chance for anything else, and that's every other year.
>


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)


This posting was submitted via the Web interface

**
Even the best single Remedy course isn't equivalent to RUG,
since there will be sessions on each topic, especially on PT&T,
and not only are there the sessions, there is the abilitiy to talk to in person
not only Engineering, but former engineering, and everyone else.

[ Don't know yet how many of the RUG MVPs and knowns there will be,
but even those of us that aren't MVP's can be interesting to talk to :-) ]

The course gives a good general overview of all the various components to look at,
but if you have specific questions, at RUG you get 3 days, and one evening of
they (the experts from Engineering) are there until ALL the questions are answered
(even after the peanuts and beer are gone, they stay until we can ask no more).

... Daniel


-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Rick Cook
Sent: April 12, 2005 22:33
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


**
The PT&T course is the best of them, IMO. I think you would gain lots from it. However, would you gain more from talking to the actual engineers at RUG? They do that Tuesday evening.

Rick



From: Jon Chau
Sent: Tue 4/12/2005 12:05 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


I know I've heard several others state that they would choose RUG over
a course any day. Is the experience and knowledge gained from RUG
greatly superior over learning information in a class (it sounds more
fun than sitting in class that's for sure)? I'm still fairly new to
the Remedy world. Also, the course would be a few hours drive away,
while RUG would require airfare across the country. The single course
would also be a little cheaper (Performance Tuning & Troubleshooting)
than RUG. I've heard good stuff about PT&T. Any input regarding that
class vs RUG? Something to persuade my supervisor perhaps?

Jon

On Apr 12, 2005 2:31 PM, Fong, Den wrote:
> Not possible,
>
> This year it was RUG or a class, I voted for the RUG so there is not
> chance for anything else, and that's every other year.
>


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)


This posting was submitted via the Web interface

This posting was submitted via the Web interface

The best part of RUG is hanging out with Gidd, Zandi
and Daniel. You can't buy entertainment that good.

Besides, Dan's singing this year.

He promised.

Second to the interesting and knowledgable users are
the interesting and knowledgeable engineers (and
yes...an Evening with Engineering is almost worth the
price of the entire trip - though we should probably
stop saying that as I've noticed the Technical
conference calls have stopped since we started...or
they've stopped sending me the call-in
number...hrmmm...).

The BoF sessions can also be of great value and
everyone *must* attend Dan's presentation this year -
it's sure to be a good one.

At any rate, back to the ICA idea...

Being good at ARS is not *just* one set of skills.
Many times I've spoken with peers and customers about
how an ARS consultant needs to have a broad set of
skills to be truly effective and I don't think any
have disagreed with that position.

That being said, not every aspect of ARS requires a
consultant's level of understanding either (picture
Scotty sniping at the Junior Engineer..."ye gotta use
the right tool fer the right job, Lad!").

It seems to me that some of the ideas talked about for
an ARS ICA are unnecessarily linear - there are
aspects of design/development, business process,
programming and systems administration as well as
knowing specific products (ITSM, CSS, etc) at play.

Reasonably speaking, there aren't many who are equally
skilled in all areas - yet, that alone doesn't
invalidate someone who is good at one aspect of ARS
and not others in terms of the value they can bring
their customers or employers.

I mean, a wiz-bang ITSM guy who can make Help Desk
sing soprano, but can't develop new apps from scratch
to save his life is still a good person to have around
if you're working with ITSM, right? Why buy a
ShopSmith when all you need is a saw?

Much like there are MCSE and MCSD or CNA and CNE,
there should be different spheres of skills for ARS
certification.

So, for your consideration...

1. ARSAD - the ARS Application Developer
2. ARSAP - the ARS API Programmer
3. ARSE - the ARS Engineer
4. ARSPIT - the ARS Process Integration Technologist

And finally, the penultimate...

5. ARSEHOLE - the ARS Enterprising Hooligan (of) OLE
;)

Seriously though, yesterday I was pondering the
requisite skill areas an ARS professional typically
uses (it was legitimate work related
pondering...honest...), and came up with this list:

1. Administration (the care and feeding of the ARS
server).
2. Development (the use of ARS core workflow to build
applications, architecture, design, etc.)
3. Programming (the use of the ARS API and Plug-In
architecture)
4. Business Analysis (applying ARS to business
solutions, ITIL, process modeling, project management,
etc.)
5. Integration (using ARS with other stuff...Web
Services, messaging, EIE, etc.)

Granted, there's plenty of room to overlap and a full
on RAC-equivalent consultant will need some facility
in all of these areas.

However, it might help clear the muddied waters of
what skills are required, what testing method is
preferred, etc. to break it up some.

A BPE specialist would be tested and assessed with a
far different set of requirements and methods than an
API Programmer or Admin and would typically fulfill
different roles independantly.

So...I pose the question...would a multi-level or
multi-faceted certification program be of value
(assuming there's an accepted body to administer it,
be that BMC/Remedy or an ICA)?

Chris Woyton

--- Daniel Bloom wrote:
> Even the best single Remedy course isn't equivalent
> to RUG,
> since there will be sessions on each topic,
> especially on PT&T,
> and not only are there the sessions, there is the
> abilitiy to talk to in
> person
> not only Engineering, but former engineering, and
> everyone else.
>
> [ Don't know yet how many of the RUG MVPs and knowns
> there will be,
> but even those of us that aren't MVP's can be
> interesting to talk to :-) ]
>
> The course gives a good general overview of all the
> various components to
> look at,
> but if you have specific questions, at RUG you get 3
> days, and one evening
> of
> they (the experts from Engineering) are there until
> ALL the questions are
> answered
> (even after the peanuts and beer are gone, they stay
> until we can ask no
> more).
>
> ... Daniel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion
> list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Rick Cook
> Sent: April 12, 2005 22:33
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
>
> **
> The PT&T course is the best of them, IMO. I think
> you would gain lots
> from it. However, would you gain more from talking
> to the actual engineers
> at RUG? They do that Tuesday evening.
>
> Rick
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> From: Jon Chau
> Sent: Tue 4/12/2005 12:05 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
>
> I know I've heard several others state that they
> would choose RUG over
> a course any day. Is the experience and knowledge
> gained from RUG
> greatly superior over learning information in a
> class (it sounds more
> fun than sitting in class that's for sure)? I'm
> still fairly new to
> the Remedy world. Also, the course would be a few
> hours drive away,
> while RUG would require airfare across the country.
> The single course
> would also be a little cheaper (Performance Tuning &
> Troubleshooting)
> than RUG. I've heard good stuff about PT&T. Any
> input regarding that
> class vs RUG? Something to persuade my supervisor
> perhaps?
>
> Jon
>
> On Apr 12, 2005 2:31 PM, Fong, Den
> wrote:
> > Not possible,
> >
> > This year it was RUG or a class, I voted for the
> RUG so there is not
> > chance for anything else, and that's every other
> year.
> >
>
>

>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at
> http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
>
> This posting was
> submitted via the Web
> interface
>
>

> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at
> http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>

Chris Woyton
bach@primenet.com
602.538.0376




Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/


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(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

Oh nooooooooooooooooo

Sincerely
Herb Partlow
President/CEO
IB Technical Consulting, Inc.
(B) 408-253-0344
(M) 408-309-5316
Herb@ibtechnicalconsulting.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Chris Woyton
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 7:56 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority

The best part of RUG is hanging out with Gidd, Zandi
and Daniel. You can't buy entertainment that good.

Besides, Dan's singing this year.

He promised.

Second to the interesting and knowledgable users are
the interesting and knowledgeable engineers (and
yes...an Evening with Engineering is almost worth the
price of the entire trip - though we should probably
stop saying that as I've noticed the Technical
conference calls have stopped since we started...or
they've stopped sending me the call-in
number...hrmmm...).

The BoF sessions can also be of great value and
everyone *must* attend Dan's presentation this year -
it's sure to be a good one.

At any rate, back to the ICA idea...

Being good at ARS is not *just* one set of skills.
Many times I've spoken with peers and customers about
how an ARS consultant needs to have a broad set of
skills to be truly effective and I don't think any
have disagreed with that position.

That being said, not every aspect of ARS requires a
consultant's level of understanding either (picture
Scotty sniping at the Junior Engineer..."ye gotta use
the right tool fer the right job, Lad!").

It seems to me that some of the ideas talked about for
an ARS ICA are unnecessarily linear - there are
aspects of design/development, business process,
programming and systems administration as well as
knowing specific products (ITSM, CSS, etc) at play.

Reasonably speaking, there aren't many who are equally
skilled in all areas - yet, that alone doesn't
invalidate someone who is good at one aspect of ARS
and not others in terms of the value they can bring
their customers or employers.

I mean, a wiz-bang ITSM guy who can make Help Desk
sing soprano, but can't develop new apps from scratch
to save his life is still a good person to have around
if you're working with ITSM, right? Why buy a
ShopSmith when all you need is a saw?

Much like there are MCSE and MCSD or CNA and CNE,
there should be different spheres of skills for ARS
certification.

So, for your consideration...

1. ARSAD - the ARS Application Developer
2. ARSAP - the ARS API Programmer
3. ARSE - the ARS Engineer
4. ARSPIT - the ARS Process Integration Technologist

And finally, the penultimate...

5. ARSEHOLE - the ARS Enterprising Hooligan (of) OLE
;)

Seriously though, yesterday I was pondering the
requisite skill areas an ARS professional typically
uses (it was legitimate work related
pondering...honest...), and came up with this list:

1. Administration (the care and feeding of the ARS
server).
2. Development (the use of ARS core workflow to build
applications, architecture, design, etc.)
3. Programming (the use of the ARS API and Plug-In
architecture)
4. Business Analysis (applying ARS to business
solutions, ITIL, process modeling, project management,
etc.)
5. Integration (using ARS with other stuff...Web
Services, messaging, EIE, etc.)

Granted, there's plenty of room to overlap and a full
on RAC-equivalent consultant will need some facility
in all of these areas.

However, it might help clear the muddied waters of
what skills are required, what testing method is
preferred, etc. to break it up some.

A BPE specialist would be tested and assessed with a
far different set of requirements and methods than an
API Programmer or Admin and would typically fulfill
different roles independantly.

So...I pose the question...would a multi-level or
multi-faceted certification program be of value
(assuming there's an accepted body to administer it,
be that BMC/Remedy or an ICA)?

Chris Woyton

--- Daniel Bloom wrote:
> Even the best single Remedy course isn't equivalent
> to RUG,
> since there will be sessions on each topic,
> especially on PT&T,
> and not only are there the sessions, there is the
> abilitiy to talk to in
> person
> not only Engineering, but former engineering, and
> everyone else.
>
> [ Don't know yet how many of the RUG MVPs and knowns
> there will be,
> but even those of us that aren't MVP's can be
> interesting to talk to :-) ]
>
> The course gives a good general overview of all the
> various components to
> look at,
> but if you have specific questions, at RUG you get 3
> days, and one evening
> of
> they (the experts from Engineering) are there until
> ALL the questions are
> answered
> (even after the peanuts and beer are gone, they stay
> until we can ask no
> more).
>
> ... Daniel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion
> list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Rick Cook
> Sent: April 12, 2005 22:33
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
>
> **
> The PT&T course is the best of them, IMO. I think
> you would gain lots
> from it. However, would you gain more from talking
> to the actual engineers
> at RUG? They do that Tuesday evening.
>
> Rick
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
> --
> From: Jon Chau
> Sent: Tue 4/12/2005 12:05 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
>
> I know I've heard several others state that they
> would choose RUG over
> a course any day. Is the experience and knowledge
> gained from RUG
> greatly superior over learning information in a
> class (it sounds more
> fun than sitting in class that's for sure)? I'm
> still fairly new to
> the Remedy world. Also, the course would be a few
> hours drive away,
> while RUG would require airfare across the country.
> The single course
> would also be a little cheaper (Performance Tuning &
> Troubleshooting)
> than RUG. I've heard good stuff about PT&T. Any
> input regarding that
> class vs RUG? Something to persuade my supervisor
> perhaps?
>
> Jon
>
> On Apr 12, 2005 2:31 PM, Fong, Den
> wrote:
> > Not possible,
> >
> > This year it was RUG or a class, I voted for the
> RUG so there is not
> > chance for anything else, and that's every other
> year.
> >
>
>


>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at
> http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
>
> This posting was
> submitted via the Web
> interface
>
>


> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at
> http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>

Chris Woyton
bach@primenet.com
602.538.0376




Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/



UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)


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(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

Er...didn't like the specialty certification idea?

Or did the thought of Dan singing bring that on? ;)


--- Herb Partlow
wrote:

> Oh nooooooooooooooooo
>
> Sincerely
> Herb Partlow
> President/CEO
> IB Technical Consulting, Inc.
> (B) 408-253-0344
> (M) 408-309-5316
> Herb@ibtechnicalconsulting.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Chris
> Woyton
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 7:56 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
> The best part of RUG is hanging out with Gidd, Zandi
> and Daniel. You can't buy entertainment that good.
>
> Besides, Dan's singing this year.
>
> He promised.
>
> Second to the interesting and knowledgable users are
> the interesting and knowledgeable engineers (and
> yes...an Evening with Engineering is almost worth
> the
> price of the entire trip - though we should probably
> stop saying that as I've noticed the Technical
> conference calls have stopped since we started...or
> they've stopped sending me the call-in
> number...hrmmm...).
>
> The BoF sessions can also be of great value and
> everyone *must* attend Dan's presentation this year
> -
> it's sure to be a good one.
>
> At any rate, back to the ICA idea...
>
> Being good at ARS is not *just* one set of skills.
> Many times I've spoken with peers and customers
> about
> how an ARS consultant needs to have a broad set of
> skills to be truly effective and I don't think any
> have disagreed with that position.
>
> That being said, not every aspect of ARS requires a
> consultant's level of understanding either (picture
> Scotty sniping at the Junior Engineer..."ye gotta
> use
> the right tool fer the right job, Lad!").
>
> It seems to me that some of the ideas talked about
> for
> an ARS ICA are unnecessarily linear - there are
> aspects of design/development, business process,
> programming and systems administration as well as
> knowing specific products (ITSM, CSS, etc) at play.
>
> Reasonably speaking, there aren't many who are
> equally
> skilled in all areas - yet, that alone doesn't
> invalidate someone who is good at one aspect of ARS
> and not others in terms of the value they can bring
> their customers or employers.
>
> I mean, a wiz-bang ITSM guy who can make Help Desk
> sing soprano, but can't develop new apps from
> scratch
> to save his life is still a good person to have
> around
> if you're working with ITSM, right? Why buy a
> ShopSmith when all you need is a saw?
>
> Much like there are MCSE and MCSD or CNA and CNE,
> there should be different spheres of skills for ARS
> certification.
>
> So, for your consideration...
>
> 1. ARSAD - the ARS Application Developer
> 2. ARSAP - the ARS API Programmer
> 3. ARSE - the ARS Engineer
> 4. ARSPIT - the ARS Process Integration Technologist
>
> And finally, the penultimate...
>
> 5. ARSEHOLE - the ARS Enterprising Hooligan (of) OLE
> ;)
>
> Seriously though, yesterday I was pondering the
> requisite skill areas an ARS professional typically
> uses (it was legitimate work related
> pondering...honest...), and came up with this list:
>
> 1. Administration (the care and feeding of the ARS
> server).
> 2. Development (the use of ARS core workflow to
> build
> applications, architecture, design, etc.)
> 3. Programming (the use of the ARS API and Plug-In
> architecture)
> 4. Business Analysis (applying ARS to business
> solutions, ITIL, process modeling, project
> management,
> etc.)
> 5. Integration (using ARS with other stuff...Web
> Services, messaging, EIE, etc.)
>
> Granted, there's plenty of room to overlap and a
> full
> on RAC-equivalent consultant will need some facility
> in all of these areas.
>
> However, it might help clear the muddied waters of
> what skills are required, what testing method is
> preferred, etc. to break it up some.
>
> A BPE specialist would be tested and assessed with a
> far different set of requirements and methods than
> an
> API Programmer or Admin and would typically fulfill
> different roles independantly.
>
> So...I pose the question...would a multi-level or
> multi-faceted certification program be of value
> (assuming there's an accepted body to administer it,
> be that BMC/Remedy or an ICA)?
>
> Chris Woyton
>
> --- Daniel Bloom wrote:
> > Even the best single Remedy course isn't
> equivalent
> > to RUG,
> > since there will be sessions on each topic,
> > especially on PT&T,
> > and not only are there the sessions, there is the
> > abilitiy to talk to in
> > person
> > not only Engineering, but former engineering, and
> > everyone else.
> >
> > [ Don't know yet how many of the RUG MVPs and
> knowns
> > there will be,
> > but even those of us that aren't MVP's can be
> > interesting to talk to :-) ]
> >
> > The course gives a good general overview of all
> the
> > various components to
> > look at,
> > but if you have specific questions, at RUG you get
> 3
> > days, and one evening
> > of
> > they (the experts from Engineering) are there
> until
> > ALL the questions are
> > answered
> > (even after the peanuts and beer are gone, they
> stay
> > until we can ask no
> > more).
> >
> > ... Daniel
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Action Request System discussion
> > list(ARSList)
> > [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Rick Cook
> > Sent: April 12, 2005 22:33
> > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> > Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
> >
> >
> > **
> > The PT&T course is the best of them, IMO. I
> think
> > you would gain lots
> > from it. However, would you gain more from
> talking
> > to the actual engineers
> > at RUG? They do that Tuesday evening.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
> > --
> > From: Jon Chau
> > Sent: Tue 4/12/2005 12:05 PM
> > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> > Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
> >
> >
> > I know I've heard several others state that they
> > would choose RUG over
> > a course any day. Is the experience and knowledge
> > gained from RUG
> > greatly superior over learning information in a
> > class (it sounds more
> > fun than sitting in class that's for sure)? I'm
> > still fairly new to
> > the Remedy world. Also, the course would be a few
> > hours drive away,
> > while RUG would require airfare across the
> country.
> > The single course
> > would also be a little cheaper (Performance Tuning
> &
> > Troubleshooting)
> > than RUG. I've heard good stuff about PT&T. Any
> > input regarding that
> > class vs RUG? Something to persuade my supervisor
> > perhaps?
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > On Apr 12, 2005 2:31 PM, Fong, Den
>
> > wrote:
> > > Not possible,
> > >
> > > This year it was RUG or a class, I voted for the
> > RUG so there is not
> > > chance for anything else, and that's every other
> > year.
> > >
> >
> >
>

>
> >
> > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at
> > http://www.ARSLIST.org
> > (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
> >
> >
> > This posting was
> > submitted via the Web
> > interface
> >
> >
>

>
> > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at
> > http://www.ARSLIST.org
> > (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
> >
>
> Chris Woyton
> bach@primenet.com
> 602.538.0376
>
>
>
>
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
>
>

>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at
> http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
>

> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at
> http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


Chris Woyton
bach@primenet.com
602.538.0376




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**
The worst part is that everyone seems to go to bed much too early. I am on a total adrenaline rush while there, and when 11:30 rolls around and I don't see anyone I recognize, even in the hotel bar, it's a real letdown to have to call it a night.

C'mon, you slackers - let's see some all-night tech chat sessions this year. I want to see Chris drawing OLE code on cocktail napkins, and then have the MVPs autograph it and donate it to the bartender in lieu of a tip. I want the aura of our total geekdom to drive all the normal people out of the place (those that remained after Dan's singing). I want them to have to burn the hotel to cleanse the area of the memory of our immense nerdiness.

Who's up to the challenge?

Rick



From: Chris Woyton
Sent: Tue 4/12/2005 7:55 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


The best part of RUG is hanging out with Gidd, Zandi
and Daniel. You can't buy entertainment that good.

Besides, Dan's singing this year.

He promised.

Second to the interesting and knowledgable users are
the interesting and knowledgeable engineers (and
yes...an Evening with Engineering is almost worth the
price of the entire trip - though we should probably
stop saying that as I've noticed the Technical
conference calls have stopped since we started...or
they've stopped sending me the call-in
number...hrmmm...).

The BoF sessions can also be of great value and
everyone *must* attend Dan's presentation this year -
it's sure to be a good one.

At any rate, back to the ICA idea...

Being good at ARS is not *just* one set of skills.
Many times I've spoken with peers and customers about
how an ARS consultant needs to have a broad set of
skills to be truly effective and I don't think any
have disagreed with that position.

That being said, not every aspect of ARS requires a
consultant's level of understanding either (picture
Scotty sniping at the Junior Engineer..."ye gotta use
the right tool fer the right job, Lad!").

It seems to me that some of the ideas talked about for
an ARS ICA are unnecessarily linear - there are
aspects of design/development, business process,
programming and systems administration as well as
knowing specific products (ITSM, CSS, etc) at play.

Reasonably speaking, there aren't many who are equally
skilled in all areas - yet, that alone doesn't
invalidate someone who is good at one aspect of ARS
and not others in terms of the value they can bring
their customers or employers.

I mean, a wiz-bang ITSM guy who can make Help Desk
sing soprano, but can't develop new apps from scratch
to save his life is still a good person to have around
if you're working with ITSM, right? Why buy a
ShopSmith when all you need is a saw?

Much like there are MCSE and MCSD or CNA and CNE,
there should be different spheres of skills for ARS
certification.

So, for your consideration...

1. ARSAD - the ARS Application Developer
2. ARSAP - the ARS API Programmer
3. ARSE - the ARS Engineer
4. ARSPIT - the ARS Process Integration Technologist

And finally, the penultimate...

5. ARSEHOLE - the ARS Enterprising Hooligan (of) OLE
;)

Seriously though, yesterday I was pondering the
requisite skill areas an ARS professional typically
uses (it was legitimate work related
pondering...honest...), and came up with this list:

1. Administration (the care and feeding of the ARS
server).
2. Development (the use of ARS core workflow to build
applications, architecture, design, etc.)
3. Programming (the use of the ARS API and Plug-In
architecture)
4. Business Analysis (applying ARS to business
solutions, ITIL, process modeling, project management,
etc.)
5. Integration (using ARS with other stuff...Web
Services, messaging, EIE, etc.)

Granted, there's plenty of room to overlap and a full
on RAC-equivalent consultant will need some facility
in all of these areas.

However, it might help clear the muddied waters of
what skills are required, what testing method is
preferred, etc. to break it up some.

A BPE specialist would be tested and assessed with a
far different set of requirements and methods than an
API Programmer or Admin and would typically fulfill
different roles independantly.

So...I pose the question...would a multi-level or
multi-faceted certification program be of value
(assuming there's an accepted body to administer it,
be that BMC/Remedy or an ICA)?

Chris Woyton

--- Daniel Bloom wrote:
> Even the best single Remedy course isn't equivalent
> to RUG,
> since there will be sessions on each topic,
> especially on PT&T,
> and not only are there the sessions, there is the
> abilitiy to talk to in
> person
> not only Engineering, but former engineering, and
> everyone else.
>
> [ Don't know yet how many of the RUG MVPs and knowns
> there will be,
> but even those of us that aren't MVP's can be
> interesting to talk to :-) ]
>
> The course gives a good general overview of all the
> various components to
> look at,
> but if you have specific questions, at RUG you get 3
> days, and one evening
> of
> they (the experts from Engineering) are there until
> ALL the questions are
> answered
> (even after the peanuts and beer are gone, they stay
> until we can ask no
> more).
>
> ... Daniel
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion
> list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Rick Cook
> Sent: April 12, 2005 22:33
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
>
> **
> The PT&T course is the best of them, IMO. I think
> you would gain lots
> from it. However, would you gain more from talking
> to the actual engineers
> at RUG? They do that Tuesday evening.
>
> Rick
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
> From: Jon Chau
> Sent: Tue 4/12/2005 12:05 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
>
> I know I've heard several others state that they
> would choose RUG over
> a course any day. Is the experience and knowledge
> gained from RUG
> greatly superior over learning information in a
> class (it sounds more
> fun than sitting in class that's for sure)? I'm
> still fairly new to
> the Remedy world. Also, the course would be a few
> hours drive away,
> while RUG would require airfare across the country.
> The single course
> would also be a little cheaper (Performance Tuning &
> Troubleshooting)
> than RUG. I've heard good stuff about PT&T. Any
> input regarding that
> class vs RUG? Something to persuade my supervisor
> perhaps?
>
> Jon
>
> On Apr 12, 2005 2:31 PM, Fong, Den
> wrote:
> > Not possible,
> >
> > This year it was RUG or a class, I voted for the
> RUG so there is not
> > chance for anything else, and that's every other
> year.
> >
>
>

>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at
> http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
>
> This posting was
> submitted via the Web
> interface
>
>

> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at
> http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>

Chris Woyton
bach@primenet.com
602.538.0376




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Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/


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(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)


This posting was submitted via the Web interface

RAAAAAAWR!

eep...too fierce for nerdiness...

OOO-RAH!

hrmmm...still too much testosterone for nerdiness...

HUZZAH!

blech...too nerdy for nerdiness (in a Ren-fair geek
sort of way)...

BEER!

ahhhh....just right :)





--- Rick Cook wrote:

> The worst part is that everyone seems to go to bed
> much too early. I am on a total adrenaline rush
> while there, and when 11:30 rolls around and I don't
> see anyone I recognize, even in the hotel bar, it's
> a real letdown to have to call it a night.
>
> C'mon, you slackers - let's see some all-night tech
> chat sessions this year. I want to see Chris
> drawing OLE code on cocktail napkins, and then have
> the MVPs autograph it and donate it to the bartender
> in lieu of a tip. I want the aura of our total
> geekdom to drive all the normal people out of the
> place (those that remained after Dan's singing). I
> want them to have to burn the hotel to cleanse the
> area of the memory of our immense nerdiness.
>
> Who's up to the challenge?
>
> Rick
>
>
>
> From: Chris Woyton
> Sent: Tue 4/12/2005 7:55 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
>
> The best part of RUG is hanging out with Gidd, Zandi
> and Daniel. You can't buy entertainment that good.
>
> Besides, Dan's singing this year.
>
> He promised.
>
> Second to the interesting and knowledgable users are
> the interesting and knowledgeable engineers (and
> yes...an Evening with Engineering is almost worth
> the
> price of the entire trip - though we should probably
> stop saying that as I've noticed the Technical
> conference calls have stopped since we started...or
> they've stopped sending me the call-in
> number...hrmmm...).
>
> The BoF sessions can also be of great value and
> everyone *must* attend Dan's presentation this year
> -
> it's sure to be a good one.
>
> At any rate, back to the ICA idea...
>
> Being good at ARS is not *just* one set of skills.
> Many times I've spoken with peers and customers
> about
> how an ARS consultant needs to have a broad set of
> skills to be truly effective and I don't think any
> have disagreed with that position.
>
> That being said, not every aspect of ARS requires a
> consultant's level of understanding either (picture
> Scotty sniping at the Junior Engineer..."ye gotta
> use
> the right tool fer the right job, Lad!").
>
> It seems to me that some of the ideas talked about
> for
> an ARS ICA are unnecessarily linear - there are
> aspects of design/development, business process,
> programming and systems administration as well as
> knowing specific products (ITSM, CSS, etc) at play.
>
> Reasonably speaking, there aren't many who are
> equally
> skilled in all areas - yet, that alone doesn't
> invalidate someone who is good at one aspect of ARS
> and not others in terms of the value they can bring
> their customers or employers.
>
> I mean, a wiz-bang ITSM guy who can make Help Desk
> sing soprano, but can't develop new apps from
> scratch
> to save his life is still a good person to have
> around
> if you're working with ITSM, right? Why buy a
> ShopSmith when all you need is a saw?
>
> Much like there are MCSE and MCSD or CNA and CNE,
> there should be different spheres of skills for ARS
> certification.
>
> So, for your consideration...
>
> 1. ARSAD - the ARS Application Developer
> 2. ARSAP - the ARS API Programmer
> 3. ARSE - the ARS Engineer
> 4. ARSPIT - the ARS Process Integration Technologist
>
> And finally, the penultimate...
>
> 5. ARSEHOLE - the ARS Enterprising Hooligan (of) OLE
> ;)
>
> Seriously though, yesterday I was pondering the
> requisite skill areas an ARS professional typically
> uses (it was legitimate work related
> pondering...honest...), and came up with this list:
>
> 1. Administration (the care and feeding of the ARS
> server).
> 2. Development (the use of ARS core workflow to
> build
> applications, architecture, design, etc.)
> 3. Programming (the use of the ARS API and Plug-In
> architecture)
> 4. Business Analysis (applying ARS to business
> solutions, ITIL, process modeling, project
> management,
> etc.)
> 5. Integration (using ARS with other stuff...Web
> Services, messaging, EIE, etc.)
>
> Granted, there's plenty of room to overlap and a
> full
> on RAC-equivalent consultant will need some facility
> in all of these areas.
>
> However, it might help clear the muddied waters of
> what skills are required, what testing method is
> preferred, etc. to break it up some.
>
> A BPE specialist would be tested and assessed with a
> far different set of requirements and methods than
> an
> API Programmer or Admin and would typically fulfill
> different roles independantly.
>
> So...I pose the question...would a multi-level or
> multi-faceted certification program be of value
> (assuming there's an accepted body to administer it,
> be that BMC/Remedy or an ICA)?
>
> Chris Woyton
>
> --- Daniel Bloom wrote:
> > Even the best single Remedy course isn't
> equivalent
> > to RUG,
> > since there will be sessions on each topic,
> > especially on PT&T,
> > and not only are there the sessions, there is the
> > abilitiy to talk to in
> > person
> > not only Engineering, but former engineering, and
> > everyone else.
> >
> > [ Don't know yet how many of the RUG MVPs and
> knowns
> > there will be,
> > but even those of us that aren't MVP's can be
> > interesting to talk to :-) ]
> >
> > The course gives a good general overview of all
> the
> > various components to
> > look at,
> > but if you have specific questions, at RUG you get
> 3
> > days, and one evening
> > of
> > they (the experts from Engineering) are there
> until
> > ALL the questions are
> > answered
> > (even after the peanuts and beer are gone, they
> stay
> > until we can ask no
> > more).
> >
> > ... Daniel
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Action Request System discussion
> > list(ARSList)
> > [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Rick Cook
> > Sent: April 12, 2005 22:33
> > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> > Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
> >
> >
> > **
> > The PT&T course is the best of them, IMO. I
> think
> > you would gain lots
> > from it. However, would you gain more from
> talking
> > to the actual engineers
> > at RUG? They do that Tuesday evening.
> >
> > Rick
> >
> >
> >
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > --
> > From: Jon Chau
> > Sent: Tue 4/12/2005 12:05 PM
> > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> > Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
> >
> >
> > I know I've heard several others state that they
> > would choose RUG over
> > a course any day. Is the experience and knowledge
> > gained from RUG
> > greatly superior over learning information in a
> > class (it sounds more
> > fun than sitting in class that's for sure)? I'm
> > still fairly new to
> > the Remedy world. Also, the course would be a few
> > hours drive away,
> > while RUG would require airfare across the
> country.
> > The single course
> > would also be a little cheaper (Performance Tuning
> &
> > Troubleshooting)
> > than RUG. I've heard good stuff about PT&T. Any
> > input regarding that
> > class vs RUG? Something to persuade my supervisor
> > perhaps?
> >
> > Jon
> >
> > On Apr 12, 2005 2:31 PM, Fong, Den
>
> > wrote:
> > > Not possible,
> > >
> > > This year it was RUG or a class, I voted for the
> > RUG so there is not
> > > chance for anything else, and that's every other
> > year.
> > >
> >
> >
>

> >
> > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at
> > http://www.ARSLIST.org
> > (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
> >
> >
> > This posting was
> > submitted via the Web
> > interface
> >
> >
>

> > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at
> > http://www.ARSLIST.org
> > (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
> >
>
> Chris Woyton
> bach@primenet.com
> 602.538.0376
>
>
>
>
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
> http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
>
>

> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at
> http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
>

> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at
> http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


Chris Woyton
bach@primenet.com
602.538.0376




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Make Yahoo! your home page
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That reminds me of the RUG we had near the Airport in San Francisco (was that '97) with fully clothed people in the hot tub, Deke (remember him - Remedy instructor) doing the electric slide in the "Dance Tent" and all of us trying to see who could knock down the most crystals from the chandeliers with inflatable beach balls. I heard Trish Morgan "had some 'splaining to do" the next morning with the Hotel management...

Phil Bautista
President / CEO
Bull Creek Data Corporation
www.bullcreek.com
Remedy Approved Consultant (RAC)
512-731-0304
-----Original message-----
From: Rick Cook rcook@DENALIAI.COM
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 23:40:50 -0400
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority

:-) The worst part is that everyone seems to go to bed much too early. I am on:-) a total adrenaline rush while there, and when 11:30 rolls around and I don:-) 't see anyone I recognize, even in the hotel bar, it's a real letdown to ha:-) ve to call it a night.
:-)
:-) C'mon, you slackers - let's see some all-night tech chat sessions this year:-) . I want to see Chris drawing OLE code on cocktail napkins, and then have :-) the MVPs autograph it and donate it to the bartender in lieu of a tip. I w:-) ant the aura of our total geekdom to drive all the normal people out of the:-) place (those that remained after Dan's singing). I want them to have to b:-) urn the hotel to cleanse the area of the memory of our immense nerdiness.
:-)
:-) Who's up to the challenge?
:-)
:-) Rick
:-)
:-)
:-)
:-) From: Chris Woyton
:-) Sent: Tue 4/12/2005 7:55 PM
:-) To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
:-) Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
:-)
:-)
:-) The best part of RUG is hanging out with Gidd, Zandi
:-) and Daniel. You can't buy entertainment that good.
:-)
:-) Besides, Dan's singing this year.
:-)
:-) He promised.
:-)
:-) Second to the interesting and knowledgable users are
:-) the interesting and knowledgeable engineers (and
:-) yes...an Evening with Engineering is almost worth the
:-) price of the entire trip - though we should probably
:-) stop saying that as I've noticed the Technical
:-) conference calls have stopped since we started...or
:-) they've stopped sending me the call-in
:-) number...hrmmm...).
:-)
:-) The BoF sessions can also be of great value and
:-) everyone *must* attend Dan's presentation this year -
:-) it's sure to be a good one.
:-)
:-) At any rate, back to the ICA idea...
:-)
:-) Being good at ARS is not *just* one set of skills.
:-) Many times I've spoken with peers and customers about
:-) how an ARS consultant needs to have a broad set of
:-) skills to be truly effective and I don't think any
:-) have disagreed with that position.
:-)
:-) That being said, not every aspect of ARS requires a
:-) consultant's level of understanding either (picture
:-) Scotty sniping at the Junior Engineer..."ye gotta use
:-) the right tool fer the right job, Lad!").
:-)
:-) It seems to me that some of the ideas talked about for
:-) an ARS ICA are unnecessarily linear - there are
:-) aspects of design/development, business process,
:-) programming and systems administration as well as
:-) knowing specific products (ITSM, CSS, etc) at play.
:-)
:-) Reasonably speaking, there aren't many who are equally
:-) skilled in all areas - yet, that alone doesn't
:-) invalidate someone who is good at one aspect of ARS
:-) and not others in terms of the value they can bring
:-) their customers or employers.
:-)
:-) I mean, a wiz-bang ITSM guy who can make Help Desk
:-) sing soprano, but can't develop new apps from scratch
:-) to save his life is still a good person to have around
:-) if you're working with ITSM, right? Why buy a
:-) ShopSmith when all you need is a saw?
:-)
:-) Much like there are MCSE and MCSD or CNA and CNE,
:-) there should be different spheres of skills for ARS
:-) certification.
:-)
:-) So, for your consideration...
:-)
:-) 1. ARSAD - the ARS Application Developer
:-) 2. ARSAP - the ARS API Programmer
:-) 3. ARSE - the ARS Engineer
:-) 4. ARSPIT - the ARS Process Integration Technologist
:-)
:-) And finally, the penultimate...
:-)
:-) 5. ARSEHOLE - the ARS Enterprising Hooligan (of) OLE
:-) ;)
:-)
:-) Seriously though, yesterday I was pondering the
:-) requisite skill areas an ARS professional typically
:-) uses (it was legitimate work related
:-) pondering...honest...), and came up with this list:
:-)
:-) 1. Administration (the care and feeding of the ARS
:-) server).
:-) 2. Development (the use of ARS core workflow to build
:-) applications, architecture, design, etc.)
:-) 3. Programming (the use of the ARS API and Plug-In
:-) architecture)
:-) 4. Business Analysis (applying ARS to business
:-) solutions, ITIL, process modeling, project management,
:-) etc.)
:-) 5. Integration (using ARS with other stuff...Web
:-) Services, messaging, EIE, etc.)
:-)
:-) Granted, there's plenty of room to overlap and a full
:-) on RAC-equivalent consultant will need some facility
:-) in all of these areas.
:-)
:-) However, it might help clear the muddied waters of
:-) what skills are required, what testing method is
:-) preferred, etc. to break it up some.
:-)
:-) A BPE specialist would be tested and assessed with a
:-) far different set of requirements and methods than an
:-) API Programmer or Admin and would typically fulfill
:-) different roles independantly.
:-)
:-) So...I pose the question...would a multi-level or
:-) multi-faceted certification program be of value
:-) (assuming there's an accepted body to administer it,
:-) be that BMC/Remedy or an ICA)?
:-)
:-) Chris Woyton
:-)
:-) --- Daniel Bloom wrote:
:-) > Even the best single Remedy course isn't equivalent
:-) > to RUG,
:-) > since there will be sessions on each topic,
:-) > especially on PT&T,
:-) > and not only are there the sessions, there is the
:-) > abilitiy to talk to in
:-) > person
:-) > not only Engineering, but former engineering, and
:-) > everyone else.
:-) >
:-) > [ Don't know yet how many of the RUG MVPs and knowns
:-) > there will be,
:-) > but even those of us that aren't MVP's can be
:-) > interesting to talk to :-) ]
:-) >
:-) > The course gives a good general overview of all the
:-) > various components to
:-) > look at,
:-) > but if you have specific questions, at RUG you get 3
:-) > days, and one evening
:-) > of
:-) > they (the experts from Engineering) are there until
:-) > ALL the questions are
:-) > answered
:-) > (even after the peanuts and beer are gone, they stay
:-) > until we can ask no
:-) > more).
:-) >
:-) > ... Daniel
:-) >
:-) > -----Original Message-----
:-) > From: Action Request System discussion
:-) > list(ARSList)
:-) > [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Rick Cook
:-) > Sent: April 12, 2005 22:33
:-) > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
:-) > Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
:-) >
:-) >
:-) > **
:-) > The PT&T course is the best of them, IMO. I think
:-) > you would gain lots
:-) > from it. However, would you gain more from talking
:-) > to the actual engineers
:-) > at RUG? They do that Tuesday evening.
:-) >
:-) > Rick
:-) >
:-) >
:-) >
:-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------:-) -
:-) > --
:-) > From: Jon Chau
:-) > Sent: Tue 4/12/2005 12:05 PM
:-) > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
:-) > Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
:-) >
:-) >
:-) > I know I've heard several others state that they
:-) > would choose RUG over
:-) > a course any day. Is the experience and knowledge
:-) > gained from RUG
:-) > greatly superior over learning information in a
:-) > class (it sounds more
:-) > fun than sitting in class that's for sure)? I'm
:-) > still fairly new to
:-) > the Remedy world. Also, the course would be a few
:-) > hours drive away,
:-) > while RUG would require airfare across the country.
:-) > The single course
:-) > would also be a little cheaper (Performance Tuning &
:-) > Troubleshooting)
:-) > than RUG. I've heard good stuff about PT&T. Any
:-) > input regarding that
:-) > class vs RUG? Something to persuade my supervisor
:-) > perhaps?
:-) >
:-) > Jon
:-) >
:-) > On Apr 12, 2005 2:31 PM, Fong, Den
:-) > wrote:
:-) > > Not possible,
:-) > >
:-) > > This year it was RUG or a class, I voted for the
:-) > RUG so there is not
:-) > > chance for anything else, and that's every other
:-) > year.
:-) > >
:-) >
:-) >
:-) :-)
:-) >
:-) > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at
:-) > http://www.ARSLIST.org
:-) > (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
:-) >
:-) >
:-) > This posting was
:-) > submitted via the Web
:-) > interface
:-) >
:-) >
:-) :-)
:-) > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at
:-) > http://www.ARSLIST.org
:-) > (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
:-) >
:-)
:-) Chris Woyton
:-) bach@primenet.com
:-) 602.538.0376
:-)
:-)
:-)
:-)
:-) Do you Yahoo!?
:-) Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
:-) http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
:-)
:-) :-)
:-) UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
:-) (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
:-)
:-)
:-) UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
:-) (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
:-)


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Chris,
Or was that the thought of both of us singing?
(does it to me).

You're part of it too.
... Daniel
ps. another incentive to be at RUG2005?
It's okay, I'll bring ear plugs :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Chris Woyton
Sent: April 12, 2005 23:13
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


Er...didn't like the specialty certification idea?

Or did the thought of Dan singing bring that on? ;)


--- Herb Partlow
wrote:

> Oh nooooooooooooooooo
>
> Sincerely
> Herb Partlow
> President/CEO
> IB Technical Consulting, Inc.
> (B) 408-253-0344
> (M) 408-309-5316
> Herb@ibtechnicalconsulting.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Chris
> Woyton
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 7:56 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
> The best part of RUG is hanging out with Gidd, Zandi
> and Daniel. You can't buy entertainment that good.
>
> Besides, Dan's singing this year.
>
> He promised.
>



UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

Hey now...I was a professional musician for a long
time. Maybe years of hard-living turned the crystal
tenor to more of an Eddie Vedder, but I can still belt
it out just fine under the right influences.

Ok, maybe not hard living - more like years of doing
Mark Anthony-ish harmonies (who did those guys think I
was? The missing Bee Gee?).

Regardless, I take no responsibility for musical
parody to which I was a contributor, but not primary
author. :P

Now, if there were guitars involved...;)

Chris

-ps and hey! Get back on topic! I wanna know what you
all think about multiple certifications based on
subject area. :P


--- Daniel Bloom wrote:
> Chris,
> Or was that the thought of both of us singing?
> (does it to me).
>
> You're part of it too.
> ... Daniel
> ps. another incentive to be at RUG2005?
> It's okay, I'll bring ear plugs :-)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Chris
> Woyton
> Sent: April 12, 2005 23:13
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
>
> Er...didn't like the specialty certification idea?
>
> Or did the thought of Dan singing bring that on? ;)
>
>
> --- Herb Partlow
> wrote:
>
> > Oh nooooooooooooooooo
> >
> > Sincerely
> > Herb Partlow
> > President/CEO
> > IB Technical Consulting, Inc.
> > (B) 408-253-0344
> > (M) 408-309-5316
> > Herb@ibtechnicalconsulting.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Action Request System discussion
> list(ARSList)
> > [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Chris
> > Woyton
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 7:56 PM
> > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> > Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
> >
> > The best part of RUG is hanging out with Gidd,
> Zandi
> > and Daniel. You can't buy entertainment that good.
> >
> > Besides, Dan's singing this year.
> >
> > He promised.
> >
>
>
>

> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at
> http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>

Chris Woyton
bach@primenet.com
602.538.0376




Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs


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(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

How about a little Motley Crue?

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Chris Woyton
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 9:29 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority

Hey now...I was a professional musician for a long
time. Maybe years of hard-living turned the crystal
tenor to more of an Eddie Vedder, but I can still belt
it out just fine under the right influences.

Ok, maybe not hard living - more like years of doing
Mark Anthony-ish harmonies (who did those guys think I
was? The missing Bee Gee?).

Regardless, I take no responsibility for musical
parody to which I was a contributor, but not primary
author. :P

Now, if there were guitars involved...;)

Chris

-ps and hey! Get back on topic! I wanna know what you
all think about multiple certifications based on
subject area. :P


--- Daniel Bloom wrote:
> Chris,
> Or was that the thought of both of us singing?
> (does it to me).
>
> You're part of it too.
> ... Daniel
> ps. another incentive to be at RUG2005?
> It's okay, I'll bring ear plugs :-)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Chris
> Woyton
> Sent: April 12, 2005 23:13
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
>
> Er...didn't like the specialty certification idea?
>
> Or did the thought of Dan singing bring that on? ;)
>
>
> --- Herb Partlow
> wrote:
>
> > Oh nooooooooooooooooo
> >
> > Sincerely
> > Herb Partlow
> > President/CEO
> > IB Technical Consulting, Inc.
> > (B) 408-253-0344
> > (M) 408-309-5316
> > Herb@ibtechnicalconsulting.com
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Action Request System discussion
> list(ARSList)
> > [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Chris
> > Woyton
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 7:56 PM
> > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> > Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
> >
> > The best part of RUG is hanging out with Gidd,
> Zandi
> > and Daniel. You can't buy entertainment that good.
> >
> > Besides, Dan's singing this year.
> >
> > He promised.
> >
>
>
>


> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at
> http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>

Chris Woyton
bach@primenet.com
602.538.0376




Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs



UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
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My first RUG! Good times, good times!!!!

I'll always remember the "bitch" session with the VP's. Lots of wine
and beer...as the session moved along, the questioning became somewhat
"beligerant". Especially in regard to licensing.

Wonder why they don't use that format anymore????

Warren

On 4/13/05, bullcreek.com wrote:
> That reminds me of the RUG we had near the Airport in San Francisco (was that '97) with fully clothed people in the hot tub, Deke (remember him - Remedy instructor) doing the electric slide in the "Dance Tent" and all of us trying to see who could knock down the most crystals from the chandeliers with inflatable beach balls. I heard Trish Morgan "had some 'splaining to do" the next morning with the Hotel management...
>
> Phil Bautista
> President / CEO
> Bull Creek Data Corporation
> www.bullcreek.com
> Remedy Approved Consultant (RAC)
> 512-731-0304
> -----Original message-----
> From: Rick Cook rcook@DENALIAI.COM
> Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 23:40:50 -0400
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
> :-) The worst part is that everyone seems to go to bed much too early. I am on:-) a total adrenaline rush while there, and when 11:30 rolls around and I don:-) 't see anyone I recognize, even in the hotel bar, it's a real letdown to ha:-) ve to call it a night.
> :-)
> :-) C'mon, you slackers - let's see some all-night tech chat sessions this year:-) . I want to see Chris drawing OLE code on cocktail napkins, and then have :-) the MVPs autograph it and donate it to the bartender in lieu of a tip. I w:-) ant the aura of our total geekdom to drive all the normal people out of the:-) place (those that remained after Dan's singing). I want them to have to b:-) urn the hotel to cleanse the area of the memory of our immense nerdiness.
> :-)
> :-) Who's up to the challenge?
> :-)
> :-) Rick
> :-)
> :-)
> :-)
> :-) From: Chris Woyton
> :-) Sent: Tue 4/12/2005 7:55 PM
> :-) To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> :-) Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
> :-)
> :-)
> :-) The best part of RUG is hanging out with Gidd, Zandi
> :-) and Daniel. You can't buy entertainment that good.
> :-)
> :-) Besides, Dan's singing this year.
> :-)
> :-) He promised.
> :-)
> :-) Second to the interesting and knowledgable users are
> :-) the interesting and knowledgeable engineers (and
> :-) yes...an Evening with Engineering is almost worth the
> :-) price of the entire trip - though we should probably
> :-) stop saying that as I've noticed the Technical
> :-) conference calls have stopped since we started...or
> :-) they've stopped sending me the call-in
> :-) number...hrmmm...).
> :-)
> :-) The BoF sessions can also be of great value and
> :-) everyone *must* attend Dan's presentation this year -
> :-) it's sure to be a good one.
> :-)
> :-) At any rate, back to the ICA idea...
> :-)
> :-) Being good at ARS is not *just* one set of skills.
> :-) Many times I've spoken with peers and customers about
> :-) how an ARS consultant needs to have a broad set of
> :-) skills to be truly effective and I don't think any
> :-) have disagreed with that position.
> :-)
> :-) That being said, not every aspect of ARS requires a
> :-) consultant's level of understanding either (picture
> :-) Scotty sniping at the Junior Engineer..."ye gotta use
> :-) the right tool fer the right job, Lad!").
> :-)
> :-) It seems to me that some of the ideas talked about for
> :-) an ARS ICA are unnecessarily linear - there are
> :-) aspects of design/development, business process,
> :-) programming and systems administration as well as
> :-) knowing specific products (ITSM, CSS, etc) at play.
> :-)
> :-) Reasonably speaking, there aren't many who are equally
> :-) skilled in all areas - yet, that alone doesn't
> :-) invalidate someone who is good at one aspect of ARS
> :-) and not others in terms of the value they can bring
> :-) their customers or employers.
> :-)
> :-) I mean, a wiz-bang ITSM guy who can make Help Desk
> :-) sing soprano, but can't develop new apps from scratch
> :-) to save his life is still a good person to have around
> :-) if you're working with ITSM, right? Why buy a
> :-) ShopSmith when all you need is a saw?
> :-)
> :-) Much like there are MCSE and MCSD or CNA and CNE,
> :-) there should be different spheres of skills for ARS
> :-) certification.
> :-)
> :-) So, for your consideration...
> :-)
> :-) 1. ARSAD - the ARS Application Developer
> :-) 2. ARSAP - the ARS API Programmer
> :-) 3. ARSE - the ARS Engineer
> :-) 4. ARSPIT - the ARS Process Integration Technologist
> :-)
> :-) And finally, the penultimate...
> :-)
> :-) 5. ARSEHOLE - the ARS Enterprising Hooligan (of) OLE
> :-) ;)
> :-)
> :-) Seriously though, yesterday I was pondering the
> :-) requisite skill areas an ARS professional typically
> :-) uses (it was legitimate work related
> :-) pondering...honest...), and came up with this list:
> :-)
> :-) 1. Administration (the care and feeding of the ARS
> :-) server).
> :-) 2. Development (the use of ARS core workflow to build
> :-) applications, architecture, design, etc.)
> :-) 3. Programming (the use of the ARS API and Plug-In
> :-) architecture)
> :-) 4. Business Analysis (applying ARS to business
> :-) solutions, ITIL, process modeling, project management,
> :-) etc.)
> :-) 5. Integration (using ARS with other stuff...Web
> :-) Services, messaging, EIE, etc.)
> :-)
> :-) Granted, there's plenty of room to overlap and a full
> :-) on RAC-equivalent consultant will need some facility
> :-) in all of these areas.
> :-)
> :-) However, it might help clear the muddied waters of
> :-) what skills are required, what testing method is
> :-) preferred, etc. to break it up some.
> :-)
> :-) A BPE specialist would be tested and assessed with a
> :-) far different set of requirements and methods than an
> :-) API Programmer or Admin and would typically fulfill
> :-) different roles independantly.
> :-)
> :-) So...I pose the question...would a multi-level or
> :-) multi-faceted certification program be of value
> :-) (assuming there's an accepted body to administer it,
> :-) be that BMC/Remedy or an ICA)?
> :-)
> :-) Chris Woyton
> :-)
> :-) --- Daniel Bloom wrote:
> :-) > Even the best single Remedy course isn't equivalent
> :-) > to RUG,
> :-) > since there will be sessions on each topic,
> :-) > especially on PT&T,
> :-) > and not only are there the sessions, there is the
> :-) > abilitiy to talk to in
> :-) > person
> :-) > not only Engineering, but former engineering, and
> :-) > everyone else.
> :-) >
> :-) > [ Don't know yet how many of the RUG MVPs and knowns
> :-) > there will be,
> :-) > but even those of us that aren't MVP's can be
> :-) > interesting to talk to :-) ]
> :-) >
> :-) > The course gives a good general overview of all the
> :-) > various components to
> :-) > look at,
> :-) > but if you have specific questions, at RUG you get 3
> :-) > days, and one evening
> :-) > of
> :-) > they (the experts from Engineering) are there until
> :-) > ALL the questions are
> :-) > answered
> :-) > (even after the peanuts and beer are gone, they stay
> :-) > until we can ask no
> :-) > more).
> :-) >
> :-) > ... Daniel
> :-) >
> :-) > -----Original Message-----
> :-) > From: Action Request System discussion
> :-) > list(ARSList)
> :-) > [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Rick Cook
> :-) > Sent: April 12, 2005 22:33
> :-) > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> :-) > Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
> :-) >
> :-) >
> :-) > **
> :-) > The PT&T course is the best of them, IMO. I think
> :-) > you would gain lots
> :-) > from it. However, would you gain more from talking
> :-) > to the actual engineers
> :-) > at RUG? They do that Tuesday evening.
> :-) >
> :-) > Rick
> :-) >
> :-) >
> :-) >
> :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------:-) -
> :-) > --
> :-) > From: Jon Chau
> :-) > Sent: Tue 4/12/2005 12:05 PM
> :-) > To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> :-) > Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
> :-) >
> :-) >
> :-) > I know I've heard several others state that they
> :-) > would choose RUG over
> :-) > a course any day. Is the experience and knowledge
> :-) > gained from RUG
> :-) > greatly superior over learning information in a
> :-) > class (it sounds more
> :-) > fun than sitting in class that's for sure)? I'm
> :-) > still fairly new to
> :-) > the Remedy world. Also, the course would be a few
> :-) > hours drive away,
> :-) > while RUG would require airfare across the country.
> :-) > The single course
> :-) > would also be a little cheaper (Performance Tuning &
> :-) > Troubleshooting)
> :-) > than RUG. I've heard good stuff about PT&T. Any
> :-) > input regarding that
> :-) > class vs RUG? Something to persuade my supervisor
> :-) > perhaps?
> :-) >
> :-) > Jon
> :-) >
> :-) > On Apr 12, 2005 2:31 PM, Fong, Den
> :-) > wrote:
> :-) > > Not possible,
> :-) > >
> :-) > > This year it was RUG or a class, I voted for the
> :-) > RUG so there is not
> :-) > > chance for anything else, and that's every other
> :-) > year.
> :-) > >
> :-) >
> :-) >
> :-) :-)
> :-) >
> :-) > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at
> :-) > http://www.ARSLIST.org
> :-) > (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
> :-) >
> :-) >
> :-) > This posting was
> :-) > submitted via the Web
> :-) > interface
> :-) >
> :-) >
> :-) :-)
> :-) > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at
> :-) > http://www.ARSLIST.org
> :-) > (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
> :-) >
> :-)
> :-) Chris Woyton
> :-) bach@primenet.com
> :-) 602.538.0376
> :-)
> :-)
> :-)
> :-)
> :-) Do you Yahoo!?
> :-) Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
> :-) http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
> :-)
> :-) :-)
> :-) UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> :-) (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
> :-)
> :-)
> :-) UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> :-) (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
> :-)
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.


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**
OK I'm definitely gonna have to watch you sing that song.
This is going to be the first time I make it to a RUG.
What would be some of the classes and seminars that
would be most beneficial? Should I bring a laptop?
Is it best to stay at the Hotel? I'm really looking foward to this.

Best Regards,
Tom Altamore

>>> dan.bloom@SYMPATICO.CA 4/13/2005 9:54:00 AM >>>

Chris,
Or was that the thought of both of us singing?
(does it to me).

You're part of it too.
... Daniel
ps. another incentive to be at RUG2005?
It's okay, I'll bring ear plugs :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Chris Woyton
Sent: April 12, 2005 23:13
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


Er...didn't like the specialty certification idea?

Or did the thought of Dan singing bring that on? ;)


--- Herb Partlow
wrote:

> Oh nooooooooooooooooo
>
> Sincerely
> Herb Partlow
> President/CEO
> IB Technical Consulting, Inc.
> (B) 408-253-0344
> (M) 408-309-5316
> Herb@ibtechnicalconsulting.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Chris
> Woyton
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 7:56 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
> The best part of RUG is hanging out with Gidd, Zandi
> and Daniel. You can't buy entertainment that good.
>
> Besides, Dan's singing this year.
>
> He promised.
>



UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

This posting was submitted via the Web interface

**
Thanks Rick,

I am very familiar with the area, I'm doing this all out of my own pocket though I may take a class before RUG also. Is it safe to bring along family? Or will there be toga clad booze hounds in the lobby?

Best Regards,
Tom Altamore

>>> rick@RICKPONZO.COM 4/13/2005 1:52:44 PM >>>

Tom,

It is definitely better to stay at the hotel. You can justify it by not
having to rent a car. It is much easier to drop off materials, or to
freshen up every once in a while. It's kinda like working out of the
house...

You can attend the pre-RUG classes, but I found much of the information that
was shared there was also disseminated during RUG. If you are unfamiliar
with an area that you would like to be better acquainted with, you may want
to take the class offered before RUG since the session may be over your head
to gain much out of it.

You can bring a laptop if you find the need for staying current on e-mail,
but you probably don't want to bring it to the sessions since they are
usually very full, and you can do just as good or better of a job taking
notes and transferring them to documents later.

Regards,
Rick Ponzo
Integrits Corporation
ponzo@integrits.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Altamore"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


> ---------------------- Information from the mail
> header -----------------------
> Sender: "Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)"
>
> Poster: Thomas Altamore
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to
> consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to
> properly handle MIME multipart messages.
>
> --=PartC4E7D6F4.0=
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> OK I'm definitely gonna have to watch you sing that song.
> This is going to be the first time I make it to a RUG.
> What would be some of the classes and seminars that
> would be most beneficial? Should I bring a laptop?
> Is it best to stay at the Hotel? I'm really looking foward to this.
>
> Best Regards,
> Tom Altamore
>
>>>> dan.bloom@SYMPATICO.CA 4/13/2005 9:54:00 AM >>>
>
> Chris,
> Or was that the thought of both of us singing?
> (does it to me).
>
> You're part of it too.
> ... Daniel
> ps. another incentive to be at RUG2005?
> It's okay, I'll bring ear plugs :-)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Chris Woyton
> Sent: April 12, 2005 23:13
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
>
> Er...didn't like the specialty certification idea?
>
> Or did the thought of Dan singing bring that on? ;)
>
>
> --- Herb Partlow
> wrote:
>
>> Oh nooooooooooooooooo
>>
>> Sincerely
>> Herb Partlow
>> President/CEO
>> IB Technical Consulting, Inc.
>> (B) 408-253-0344
>> (M) 408-309-5316
>> Herb@ibtechnicalconsulting.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
>> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Chris
>> Woyton
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 7:56 PM
>> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
>> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>>
>> The best part of RUG is hanging out with Gidd, Zandi
>> and Daniel. You can't buy entertainment that good.
>>
>> Besides, Dan's singing this year.
>>
>> He promised.
>>
>
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
> --=PartC4E7D6F4.0=
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> **
>
> > charset=3Diso-8859-1"=
>>
>
>
>

OK I'm definitely gonna have to watch you sing that song.

>

This is going to be the first time I make it to a RUG.

>

What would be some of the classes and seminars that

>

would be most beneficial? Should I bring a laptop?

>

Is it best to stay at the Hotel? I'm really looking foward to =
> this.

>

 

>

Best Regards,

>

Tom Altamore

>>> dan.bloom@SYMPATICO.CA 4/13/2005 =
> 9:54:00 AM >>>

>

Chris,
Or was that the thought of both of
> =
> us singing?
(does it to me).

You're part of it too.
... =
> Daniel
ps. another incentive to be at RUG2005?
    =
> It's okay, I'll bring ear plugs :-)

-----Original
> Message-----
Fr=
> om: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[> href=3D"mailto:ar=
> slist@ARSLIST.ORG]On">mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Chris =
> Woyton
Sent: April 12, 2005 23:13
To:
> arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject:=
> Re: Independent Certification Authority


Er...didn't like the =
> specialty certification idea?

Or did the thought of Dan singing =
> bring that on? ;)


--- Herb Partlow
> <Herb@IBTECHNICALCONSULTIN=
> G.COM>
wrote:

> Oh nooooooooooooooooo
>
> =
> Sincerely
> Herb Partlow
> President/CEO
> IB Technical
> =
> Consulting, Inc.
> (B) 408-253-0344
> (M) 408-309-5316
>
> =
> Herb@ibtechnicalconsulting.com
>
>
> -----Original =
> Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion
> list(ARSList)> R>> [> href=3D"mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]" >mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]=
> On Behalf Of Chris
> Woyton
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, =
> 2005 7:56 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: =
> Independent Certification Authority
>
> The best part of RUG =
> is hanging out with Gidd, Zandi
> and Daniel. You can't buy =
> entertainment that good.
>
> Besides, Dan's singing this =
> year.
>
> He
> promised.
>
<snip>

=
>
U=
> NSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at > href=3D"
>> http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: >>href=3D"mailto:support@arslist.=
> org)">mailto:support@arslist.org)

> This posting was submitted via the Web
> interface
>
> --=PartC4E7D6F4.0=--
>
>


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

This posting was submitted via the Web interface

**
Nah, except for the hotel bar in the evening, it's pretty PG rated. Even the party on Wed. night usually has games for the kids, etc. They'd probably have more fun at Six Flags, etc., though, for the price. They'd be bored to tears by the conference.

Rick



From: Thomas Altamore
Sent: Wed 4/13/2005 12:07 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


**
Thanks Rick,

I am very familiar with the area, I'm doing this all out of my own pocket though I may take a class before RUG also. Is it safe to bring along family? Or will there be toga clad booze hounds in the lobby?

Best Regards,
Tom Altamore

>>> rick@RICKPONZO.COM 4/13/2005 1:52:44 PM >>>

Tom,

It is definitely better to stay at the hotel. You can justify it by not
having to rent a car. It is much easier to drop off materials, or to
freshen up every once in a while. It's kinda like working out of the
house...

You can attend the pre-RUG classes, but I found much of the information that
was shared there was also disseminated during RUG. If you are unfamiliar
with an area that you would like to be better acquainted with, you may want
to take the class offered before RUG since the session may be over your head
to gain much out of it.

You can bring a laptop if you find the need for staying current on e-mail,
but you probably don't want to bring it to the sessions since they are
usually very full, and you can do just as good or better of a job taking
notes and transferring them to documents later.

Regards,
Rick Ponzo
Integrits Corporation
ponzo@integrits.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Altamore"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


> ---------------------- Information from the mail
> header -----------------------
> Sender: "Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)"
>
> Poster: Thomas Altamore
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to
> consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to
> properly handle MIME multipart messages.
>
> --=PartC4E7D6F4.0=
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> OK I'm definitely gonna have to watch you sing that song.
> This is going to be the first time I make it to a RUG.
> What would be some of the classes and seminars that
> would be most beneficial? Should I bring a laptop?
> Is it best to stay at the Hotel? I'm really looking foward to this.
>
> Best Regards,
> Tom Altamore
>
>>>> dan.bloom@SYMPATICO.CA 4/13/2005 9:54:00 AM >>>
>
> Chris,
> Or was that the thought of both of us singing?
> (does it to me).
>
> You're part of it too.
> ... Daniel
> ps. another incentive to be at RUG2005?
> It's okay, I'll bring ear plugs :-)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Chris Woyton
> Sent: April 12, 2005 23:13
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
>
> Er...didn't like the specialty certification idea?
>
> Or did the thought of Dan singing bring that on? ;)
>
>
> --- Herb Partlow
> wrote:
>
>> Oh nooooooooooooooooo
>>
>> Sincerely
>> Herb Partlow
>> President/CEO
>> IB Technical Consulting, Inc.
>> (B) 408-253-0344
>> (M) 408-309-5316
>> Herb@ibtechnicalconsulting.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
>> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Chris
>> Woyton
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 7:56 PM
>> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
>> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>>
>> The best part of RUG is hanging out with Gidd, Zandi
>> and Daniel. You can't buy entertainment that good.
>>
>> Besides, Dan's singing this year.
>>
>> He promised.
>>
>
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.arslist.org/
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.arslist.org/
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
> --=PartC4E7D6F4.0=
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> **
>
> > charset=3Diso-8859-1"=
>>
>
>
>

OK I'm definitely gonna have to watch you sing that song.

>

This is going to be the first time I make it to a RUG.

>

What would be some of the classes and seminars that

>

would be most beneficial? Should I bring a laptop?

>

Is it best to stay at the Hotel? I'm really looking foward to =
> this.

>

 

>

Best Regards,

>

Tom Altamore

>>> dan.bloom@SYMPATICO.CA 4/13/2005 =
> 9:54:00 AM >>>

>

Chris,
Or was that the thought of both of
> =
> us singing?
(does it to me).

You're part of it too.
... =
> Daniel
ps. another incentive to be at RUG2005?
    =
> It's okay, I'll bring ear plugs :-)

-----Original
> Message-----
Fr=
> om: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[> href=3D"mailto:ar=
> slist@ARSLIST.ORG]On">mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Chris =
> Woyton
Sent: April 12, 2005 23:13
To:
> arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject:=
> Re: Independent Certification Authority


Er...didn't like the =
> specialty certification idea?

Or did the thought of Dan singing =
> bring that on? ;)


--- Herb Partlow
> <Herb@IBTECHNICALCONSULTIN=
> G.COM>
wrote:

> Oh nooooooooooooooooo
>
> =
> Sincerely
> Herb Partlow
> President/CEO
> IB Technical
> =
> Consulting, Inc.
> (B) 408-253-0344
> (M) 408-309-5316
>
> =
> Herb@ibtechnicalconsulting.com
>
>
> -----Original =
> Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion
> list(ARSList)> R>> [> href=3D"mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]>mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]=
> On Behalf Of Chris
> Woyton
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, =
> 2005 7:56 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: =
> Independent Certification Authority
>
> The best part of RUG =
> is hanging out with Gidd, Zandi
> and Daniel. You can't buy =
> entertainment that good.
>
> Besides, Dan's singing this =
> year.
>
> He
> promised.
>
<snip>

=
>
U=
> NSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at > href=3D"
>> http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: >>href=3D"mailto:support@arslist.=
> org)">mailto:support@arslist.org)

> This posting was submitted via the Web
> interface
>
> --=PartC4E7D6F4.0=--
>
>


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.arslist.org/
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

This posting was submitted via the Web interface
This posting was submitted via the Web interface

**
LOL ummmm just debating bringing one big, my mom. Last time I went to a class and left her home I came back to a big fence around my property and an even bigger bill for the fence ( I had just bought the house). Besides she loves the area. Just gotta keep her away from Pina Coladas and Mudslides. Wait till your parents move in with you MWHahahahaha

-Tom

>>> rcook@DENALIAI.COM 4/13/2005 5:32:00 PM >>>

**
Nah, except for the hotel bar in the evening, it's pretty PG rated. Even the party on Wed. night usually has games for the kids, etc. They'd probably have more fun at Six Flags, etc., though, for the price. They'd be bored to tears by the conference.

Rick



From: Thomas Altamore
Sent: Wed 4/13/2005 12:07 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


**
Thanks Rick,

I am very familiar with the area, I'm doing this all out of my own pocket though I may take a class before RUG also. Is it safe to bring along family? Or will there be toga clad booze hounds in the lobby?

Best Regards,
Tom Altamore

>>> rick@RICKPONZO.COM 4/13/2005 1:52:44 PM >>>

Tom,

It is definitely better to stay at the hotel. You can justify it by not
having to rent a car. It is much easier to drop off materials, or to
freshen up every once in a while. It's kinda like working out of the
house...

You can attend the pre-RUG classes, but I found much of the information that
was shared there was also disseminated during RUG. If you are unfamiliar
with an area that you would like to be better acquainted with, you may want
to take the class offered before RUG since the session may be over your head
to gain much out of it.

You can bring a laptop if you find the need for staying current on e-mail,
but you probably don't want to bring it to the sessions since they are
usually very full, and you can do just as good or better of a job taking
notes and transferring them to documents later.

Regards,
Rick Ponzo
Integrits Corporation
ponzo@integrits.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Altamore"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


> ---------------------- Information from the mail
> header -----------------------
> Sender: "Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)"
>
> Poster: Thomas Altamore
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to
> consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to
> properly handle MIME multipart messages.
>
> --=PartC4E7D6F4.0=
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> OK I'm definitely gonna have to watch you sing that song.
> This is going to be the first time I make it to a RUG.
> What would be some of the classes and seminars that
> would be most beneficial? Should I bring a laptop?
> Is it best to stay at the Hotel? I'm really looking foward to this.
>
> Best Regards,
> Tom Altamore
>
>>>> dan.bloom@SYMPATICO.CA 4/13/2005 9:54:00 AM >>>
>
> Chris,
> Or was that the thought of both of us singing?
> (does it to me).
>
> You're part of it too.
> ... Daniel
> ps. another incentive to be at RUG2005?
> It's okay, I'll bring ear plugs :-)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Chris Woyton
> Sent: April 12, 2005 23:13
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
>
> Er...didn't like the specialty certification idea?
>
> Or did the thought of Dan singing bring that on? ;)
>
>
> --- Herb Partlow
> wrote:
>
>> Oh nooooooooooooooooo
>>
>> Sincerely
>> Herb Partlow
>> President/CEO
>> IB Technical Consulting, Inc.
>> (B) 408-253-0344
>> (M) 408-309-5316
>> Herb@ibtechnicalconsulting.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
>> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Chris
>> Woyton
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 7:56 PM
>> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
>> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>>
>> The best part of RUG is hanging out with Gidd, Zandi
>> and Daniel. You can't buy entertainment that good.
>>
>> Besides, Dan's singing this year.
>>
>> He promised.
>>
>
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.arslist.org/
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.arslist.org/
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
> --=PartC4E7D6F4.0=
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> **
>
> > charset=3Diso-8859-1"=
>>
>
>
>

OK I'm definitely gonna have to watch you sing that song.

>

This is going to be the first time I make it to a RUG.

>

What would be some of the classes and seminars that

>

would be most beneficial? Should I bring a laptop?

>

Is it best to stay at the Hotel? I'm really looking foward to =
> this.

>

 

>

Best Regards,

>

Tom Altamore

>>> dan.bloom@SYMPATICO.CA 4/13/2005 =
> 9:54:00 AM >>>

>

Chris,
Or was that the thought of both of
> =
> us singing?
(does it to me).

You're part of it too.
... =
> Daniel
ps. another incentive to be at RUG2005?
    =
> It's okay, I'll bring ear plugs :-)

-----Original
> Message-----
Fr=
> om: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[> href=3D"mailto:ar=
> slist@ARSLIST.ORG]On">mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Chris =
> Woyton
Sent: April 12, 2005 23:13
To:
> arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject:=
> Re: Independent Certification Authority


Er...didn't like the =
> specialty certification idea?

Or did the thought of Dan singing =
> bring that on? ;)


--- Herb Partlow
> <Herb@IBTECHNICALCONSULTIN=
> G.COM>
wrote:

> Oh nooooooooooooooooo
>
> =
> Sincerely
> Herb Partlow
> President/CEO
> IB Technical
> =
> Consulting, Inc.
> (B) 408-253-0344
> (M) 408-309-5316
>
> =
> Herb@ibtechnicalconsulting.com
>
>
> -----Original =
> Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion
> list(ARSList)> R>> [> href=3D"mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]>mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]=
> On Behalf Of Chris
> Woyton
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, =
> 2005 7:56 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: =
> Independent Certification Authority
>
> The best part of RUG =
> is hanging out with Gidd, Zandi
> and Daniel. You can't buy =
> entertainment that good.
>
> Besides, Dan's singing this =
> year.
>
> He
> promised.
>
<snip>

=
>
U=
> NSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at > href=3D"
>> http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: >>href=3D"mailto:support@arslist.=
> org)">mailto:support@arslist.org)

> This posting was submitted via the Web
> interface
>
> --=PartC4E7D6F4.0=--
>
>


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.arslist.org/
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

This posting was submitted via the Web interface
This posting was submitted via the Web interface
This posting was submitted via the Web interface

**
Now I am thinking about bringing my girlfriend. She would be quite content to sit by the pool during the day enjoying the weather (granted I know after saying this, that it is going to be rainy the whole time). So am I to assume with that attitude that it would be enjoyable for her?

Rick Cook wrote:

**
Nah, except for the hotel bar in the evening, it's pretty PG rated. Even the party on Wed. night usually has games for the kids, etc. They'd probably have more fun at Six Flags, etc., though, for the price. They'd be bored to tears by the conference.

Rick



From: Thomas Altamore
Sent: Wed 4/13/2005 12:07 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


**
Thanks Rick,

I am very familiar with the area, I'm doing this all out of my own pocket though I may take a class before RUG also. Is it safe to bring along family? Or will there be toga clad booze hounds in the lobby?

Best Regards,
Tom Altamore

>>> rick@RICKPONZO.COM 4/13/2005 1:52:44 PM >>>

Tom,

It is definitely better to stay at the hotel. You can justify it by not
having to rent a car. It is much easier to drop off materials, or to
freshen up every once in a while. It's kinda like working out of the
house...

You can attend the pre-RUG classes, but I found much of the information that
was shared there was also disseminated during RUG. If you are unfamiliar
with an area that you would like to be better acquainted with, you may want
to take the class offered before RUG since the session may be over your head
to gain much out of it.

You can bring a laptop if you find the need for staying current on e-mail,
but you probably don't want to bring it to the sessions since they are
usually very full, and you can do just as good or better of a job taking
notes and transferring them to documents later.

Regards,
Rick Ponzo
Integrits Corporation
ponzo@integrits.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Altamore"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


> ---------------------- Information from the mail
> header -----------------------
> Sender: "Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)"
>
> Poster: Thomas Altamore
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to
> consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to
> properly handle MIME multipart messages.
>
> --=PartC4E7D6F4.0=
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> OK I'm definitely gonna have to watch you sing that song.
> This is going to be the first time I make it to a RUG.
> What would be some of the classes and seminars that
> would be most beneficial? Should I bring a laptop?
> Is it best to stay at the Hotel? I'm really looking foward to this.
>
> Best Regards,
> Tom Altamore
>
>>>> dan.bloom@SYMPATICO.CA 4/13/2005 9:54:00 AM >>>
>
> Chris,
> Or was that the thought of both of us singing?
> (does it to me).
>
> You're part of it too.
> ... Daniel
> ps. another incentive to be at RUG2005?
> It's okay, I'll bring ear plugs :-)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Chris Woyton
> Sent: April 12, 2005 23:13
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
>
> Er...didn't like the specialty certification idea?
>
> Or did the thought of Dan singing bring that on? ;)
>
>
> --- Herb Partlow
> wrote:
>
>> Oh nooooooooooooooooo
>>
>> Sincerely
>> Herb Partlow
>> President/CEO
>> IB Technical Consulting, Inc.
>> (B) 408-253-0344
>> (M) 408-309-5316
>> Herb@ibtechnicalconsulting.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
>> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Chris
>> Woyton
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 7:56 PM
>> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
>> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>>
>> The best part of RUG is hanging out with Gidd, Zandi
>> and Daniel. You can't buy entertainment that good.
>>
>> Besides, Dan's singing this year.
>>
>> He promised.
>>
>
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.arslist.org/
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.arslist.org/
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
> --=PartC4E7D6F4.0=
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> **
>
> > charset=3Diso-8859-1"=
>>
>
>
>

OK I'm definitely gonna have to watch you sing that song.

>

This is going to be the first time I make it to a RUG.

>

What would be some of the classes and seminars that

>

would be most beneficial? Should I bring a laptop?

>

Is it best to stay at the Hotel? I'm really looking foward to =
> this.

>

 

>

Best Regards,

>

Tom Altamore

>>> dan.bloom@SYMPATICO.CA 4/13/2005 =
> 9:54:00 AM >>>

>

Chris,
Or was that the thought of both of
> =
> us singing?
(does it to me).

You're part of it too.
... =
> Daniel
ps. another incentive to be at RUG2005?
    =
> It's okay, I'll bring ear plugs :-)

-----Original
> Message-----
Fr=
> om: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[ > href=3D"mailto:ar=
> slist@ARSLIST.ORG]On">mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Chris =
> Woyton
Sent: April 12, 2005 23:13
To:
> arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject:=
> Re: Independent Certification Authority


Er...didn't like the =
> specialty certification idea?

Or did the thought of Dan singing =
> bring that on? ;)


--- Herb Partlow
> <Herb@IBTECHNICALCONSULTIN=
> G.COM>
wrote:

> Oh nooooooooooooooooo
>
> =
> Sincerely
> Herb Partlow
> President/CEO
> IB Technical
> =
> Consulting, Inc.
> (B) 408-253-0344
> (M) 408-309-5316
>
> =
> Herb@ibtechnicalconsulting.com
>
>
> -----Original =
> Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion
> list(ARSList) > R>> [ > href=3D"mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]>mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]=
> On Behalf Of Chris
> Woyton
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, =
> 2005 7:56 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: =
> Independent Certification Authority
>
> The best part of RUG =
> is hanging out with Gidd, Zandi
> and Daniel. You can't buy =
> entertainment that good.
>
> Besides, Dan's singing this =
> year.
>
> He
> promised.
>
<snip>

=
>
U=
> NSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at > href=3D"
>> http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: >>href=3D"mailto:support@arslist.=
> org)">mailto:support@arslist.org)

> This posting was submitted via the Web
> interface
>
> --=PartC4E7D6F4.0=--
>
>


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**
**

Hey I might be there and I am a Toga Clad booze hound what of it?



-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Rick Cook
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 4:32 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority



Nah, except for the hotel bar in the evening, it's pretty PG rated. Even the party on Wed. night usually has games for the kids, etc. They'd probably have more fun at Six Flags, etc., though, for the price. They'd be bored to tears by the conference.



Rick





From: Thomas Altamore
Sent: Wed 4/13/2005 12:07 PM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority

**

Thanks Rick,



I am very familiar with the area, I'm doing this all out of my own pocket though I may take a class before RUG also. Is it safe to bring along family? Or will there be toga clad booze hounds in the lobby?



Best Regards,

Tom Altamore

>>> rick@RICKPONZO.COM 4/13/2005 1:52:44 PM >>>

Tom,

It is definitely better to stay at the hotel. You can justify it by not
having to rent a car. It is much easier to drop off materials, or to
freshen up every once in a while. It's kinda like working out of the
house...

You can attend the pre-RUG classes, but I found much of the information that
was shared there was also disseminated during RUG. If you are unfamiliar
with an area that you would like to be better acquainted with, you may want
to take the class offered before RUG since the session may be over your head
to gain much out of it.

You can bring a laptop if you find the need for staying current on e-mail,
but you probably don't want to bring it to the sessions since they are
usually very full, and you can do just as good or better of a job taking
notes and transferring them to documents later.

Regards,
Rick Ponzo
Integrits Corporation
ponzo@integrits.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Altamore"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


> ---------------------- Information from the mail
> header -----------------------
> Sender: "Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)"
>
> Poster: Thomas Altamore
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to
> consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to
> properly handle MIME multipart messages.
>
> --=PartC4E7D6F4.0=
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> OK I'm definitely gonna have to watch you sing that song.
> This is going to be the first time I make it to a RUG.
> What would be some of the classes and seminars that
> would be most beneficial? Should I bring a laptop?
> Is it best to stay at the Hotel? I'm really looking foward to this.
>
> Best Regards,
> Tom Altamore
>
>>>> dan.bloom@SYMPATICO.CA 4/13/2005 9:54:00 AM >>>
>
> Chris,
> Or was that the thought of both of us singing?
> (does it to me).
>
> You're part of it too.
> ... Daniel
> ps. another incentive to be at RUG2005?
> It's okay, I'll bring ear plugs :-)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Chris Woyton
> Sent: April 12, 2005 23:13
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
>
> Er...didn't like the specialty certification idea?
>
> Or did the thought of Dan singing bring that on? ;)
>
>
> --- Herb Partlow
> wrote:
>
>> Oh nooooooooooooooooo
>>
>> Sincerely
>> Herb Partlow
>> President/CEO
>> IB Technical Consulting, Inc.
>> (B) 408-253-0344
>> (M) 408-309-5316
>> Herb@ibtechnicalconsulting.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
>> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Chris
>> Woyton
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 7:56 PM
>> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
>> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>>
>> The best part of RUG is hanging out with Gidd, Zandi
>> and Daniel. You can't buy entertainment that good.
>>
>> Besides, Dan's singing this year.
>>
>> He promised.
>>
>
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.arslist.org/
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.arslist.org/
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
> --=PartC4E7D6F4.0=
> Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> **
>
> > charset=3Diso-8859-1"=
>>
>
>
>

OK I'm definitely gonna have to watch you sing that song.

>

This is going to be the first time I make it to a RUG.

>

What would be some of the classes and seminars that

>

would be most beneficial? Should I bring a laptop?

>

Is it best to stay at the Hotel? I'm really looking foward to =
> this.

>

 

>

Best Regards,

>

Tom Altamore

>>> dan.bloom@SYMPATICO.CA 4/13/2005 =
> 9:54:00 AM >>>

>

Chris,
Or was that the thought of both of
> =
> us singing?
(does it to me).

You're part of it too.
... =
> Daniel
ps. another incentive to be at RUG2005?
    =
> It's okay, I'll bring ear plugs :-)

-----Original
> Message-----
Fr=
> om: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[> href=3D"mailto:ar=
> slist@ARSLIST.ORG]On">mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On > Behalf Of Chris =
> Woyton
Sent: April 12, 2005 23:13
To:
> arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject:=
> Re: Independent Certification Authority


Er...didn't like the =
> specialty certification idea?

Or did the thought of Dan singing =
> bring that on? ;)


--- Herb Partlow
> <Herb@IBTECHNICALCONSULTIN=
> G.COM>
wrote:

> Oh nooooooooooooooooo
>
> =
> Sincerely
> Herb Partlow
> President/CEO
> IB Technical
> =
> Consulting, Inc.
> (B) 408-253-0344
> (M) 408-309-5316
>
> =
> Herb@ibtechnicalconsulting.com
>
>
> -----Original =
> Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion
> list(ARSList)> R>> [> href=3D"mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] >mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]=
> On Behalf Of Chris
> Woyton
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, =
> 2005 7:56 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: =
> Independent Certification Authority
>
> The best part of RUG =
> is hanging out with Gidd, Zandi
> and Daniel. You can't buy =
> entertainment that good.
>
> Besides, Dan's singing this =
> year.
>
> He
> promised.
>
<snip>

=
>
U=
> NSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at > href=3D"
>> http://www.ARSLIST.org >
(Support: >>href=3D"mailto:support@arslist.=
> org)">mailto:support@arslist.org) >

> This posting was submitted via the Web
> interface
>
> --=PartC4E7D6F4.0=--
>
>


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.arslist.org/
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

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