**
Listers:

I have an idea that's sort of related to the ongoing (and seemingly never-ending) phony RSP thread. I would like everyone's opinion of the idea of establishing an independent, "open," impartial, and virtually free certification body.

I know there are tons of folks out there--many on this list--that do not have RSPs but their knowledge of Remedy certainly warrants it. As another lister posted earlier, many of us (myself included) simply don't want to spend the ludicrous $10,000 to get a professional certification.

So here's my idea: Form our own certification authority. It would be completely open. It could be established as a nonprofit organization. To earn the certification there would be no mandatory classes--just a very comprehensive test. The test would be administered online, and results could be delivered instantly. Now in the first paragraph I said the certification would be virtually free. What I mean by that is, people wanting to take a cert would be required to make a $20-$100 donation. The donations would cover operating costs (web server, test development, certificate printing, etc.).

Remedy could be just one professional certification offered. The certification body could offer certs in Oracle, Microsoft, Cisco, etc., too. Another thought I had was the creation of a Computer Science certification. This certification would be more or less equivalent to a Computer Science degree in that the candidate would have to demonstrate thorough knowledge of calculus, C++, database design, networks, technical writing, etc. It would test a person on all the core topics of a traditional CS degree but would eliminate all the bunk (Speech, Drama, Fine Arts, Foreign Language, etc.). Plus it would allow folks who have acquired all the necessary qualifications of a CS degree to have a CS credential (again, a certificate--not a degree) without having to go back to school for four years (hard to do when you're already working a full-time profession). Yes, other community colleges and tech schools offer such certificates, but this one would be free.

Once the independent certification authority got up and running and the word spread, companies from all over would begin recognizing these certificates as credible. That way those who don't want to shell out $10,000 for a certification can still qualify for job listings that say a certification is required.

Thoughts?
Norm
This posting was submitted via the Web interface

**
Hi Norm,

Have you looked at the remedy courses prices recently? - I know it's not the point but with prices getting lower and nice promotions most of the time I've decided to become an RSP and I'm half-way through it already.

I don't think having an independent certification authority will be fair for remedy, a company we all love ;-)

I agree with you though that remedy courses used to cost a lot but it's getting much better now.

Best regards,
Ash

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96 CG/SCTOA
Sent: 08 April 2005 20:50
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: OT: Independent Certification Authority



**
Listers:

I have an idea that's sort of related to the ongoing (and seemingly never-ending) phony RSP thread. I would like everyone's opinion of the idea of establishing an independent, "open," impartial, and virtually free certification body.

I know there are tons of folks out there--many on this list--that do not have RSPs but their knowledge of Remedy certainly warrants it. As another lister posted earlier, many of us (myself included) simply don't want to spend the ludicrous $10,000 to get a professional certification.

So here's my idea: Form our own certification authority. It would be completely open. It could be established as a nonprofit organization. To earn the certification there would be no mandatory classes--just a very comprehensive test. The test would be administered online, and results could be delivered instantly. Now in the first paragraph I said the certification would be virtually free. What I mean by that is, people wanting to take a cert would be required to make a $20-$100 donation. The donations would cover operating costs (web server, test development, certificate printing, etc.).

Remedy could be just one professional certification offered. The certification body could offer certs in Oracle, Microsoft, Cisco, etc., too. Another thought I had was the creation of a Computer Science certification. This certification would be more or less equivalent to a Computer Science degree in that the candidate would have to demonstrate thorough knowledge of calculus, C++, database design, networks, technical writing, etc. It would test a person on all the core topics of a traditional CS degree but would eliminate all the bunk (Speech, Drama, Fine Arts, Foreign Language, etc.). Plus it would allow folks who have acquired all the necessary qualifications of a CS degree to have a CS credential (again, a certificate--not a degree) without having to go back to school for four years (hard to do when you're already working a full-time profession). Yes, other community colleges and tech schools offer such certificates, but this one would be free.

Once the independent certification authority got up and running and the word spread, companies from all over would begin recognizing these certificates as credible. That way those who don't want to shell out $10,000 for a certification can still qualify for job listings that say a certification is required.

Thoughts?
Norm
This posting was submitted via the Web interface



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**
Well, I checked the price this morning, and for the RSP bundle, the cost is $10,000. That's pretty steep to me, considering many folks already know most of the material presented in those classes. And if your employer doesn't pay for it, then what? You have to shell out the $10,000 yourself.

In my opinion, if this were a true professional certification program, Remedy would allow people to test for the certification without having taken any of Remedy's courses, like Microsoft does. It's clearly just a revenue generator for Remedy.

Personally, I don't see how an independent certification authority would be "unfair" to Remedy. If Remedy was concerned about being "fair," they would allow what I just mentioned.



From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Elrefaey, Ashraf
Sent: 04/11/2005 7:41 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


**
Hi Norm,

Have you looked at the remedy courses prices recently? - I know it's not the point but with prices getting lower and nice promotions most of the time I've decided to become an RSP and I'm half-way through it already.

I don't think having an independent certification authority will be fair for remedy, a company we all love ;-)

I agree with you though that remedy courses used to cost a lot but it's getting much better now.

Best regards,
Ash

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96 CG/SCTOA
Sent: 08 April 2005 20:50
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: OT: Independent Certification Authority



**
Listers:

I have an idea that's sort of related to the ongoing (and seemingly never-ending) phony RSP thread. I would like everyone's opinion of the idea of establishing an independent, "open," impartial, and virtually free certification body.

I know there are tons of folks out there--many on this list--that do not have RSPs but their knowledge of Remedy certainly warrants it. As another lister posted earlier, many of us (myself included) simply don't want to spend the ludicrous $10,000 to get a professional certification.

So here's my idea: Form our own certification authority. It would be completely open. It could be established as a nonprofit organization. To earn the certification there would be no mandatory classes--just a very comprehensive test. The test would be administered online, and results could be delivered instantly. Now in the first paragraph I said the certification would be virtually free. What I mean by that is, people wanting to take a cert would be required to make a $20-$100 donation. The donations would cover operating costs (web server, test development, certificate printing, etc.).

Remedy could be just one professional certification offered. The certification body could offer certs in Oracle, Microsoft, Cisco, etc., too. Another thought I had was the creation of a Computer Science certification. This certification would be more or less equivalent to a Computer Science degree in that the candidate would have to demonstrate thorough knowledge of calculus, C++, database design, networks, technical writing, etc. It would test a person on all the core topics of a traditional CS degree but would eliminate all the bunk (Speech, Drama, Fine Arts, Foreign Language, etc.). Plus it would allow folks who have acquired all the necessary qualifications of a CS degree to have a CS credential (again, a certificate--not a degree) without having to go back to school for four years (hard to do when you're already working a full-time profession). Yes, other community colleges and tech schools offer such certificates, but this one would be free.

Once the independent certification authority got up and running and the word spread, companies from all over would begin recognizing these certificates as credible. That way those who don't want to shell out $10,000 for a certification can still qualify for job listings that say a certification is required.

Thoughts?
Norm
This posting was submitted via the Web interface



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Internet communications are not secure and COLT does not accept responsibility for this message, its contents nor responsibility for any viruses.

No contracts can be created or varied on behalf of COLT Telecommunications, its subsidiaries or affiliates ("COLT") and any other party by email Communications unless expressly agreed in writing with such other party.

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**
Just to chime in on this..

I have been through the RAC certification program and officially held the certification until about two years ago when I decided to head out on my own again. Some time after that, I inquired as to what I would need to do to "officially" use the RSP moniker (since I wasn't a bonafide Remedy partner). I was expecting that they would come back and tell me that I needed to take the ARS 6 delta class; however, I was told that I would need to go through the entire RSP curriculum.

I thought that was completely ridiculous especially since the RAC curriculum is more involved than what is required for RSP. Had they told me all I needed was the delta class, I would have asked them where to sign. It is my opinion that Remedy's primary goal with it's education arm is revenue generation. Truly establishing a level of excellence in the field is secondary. Over the last eight years I've spent working in this field, I've met a number of people that held the RAC certification but didn't, in my opinion, possess the requisite skills. I've also met some fantastic, self-taught AR System developers that haven't attended a single class.

The AR System community recognizing a third-party certification program would be more important/relevant than Remedy recognizing it. After all, how many people doing AR System development work as freelance consultants are actually doing that work for BMC Software directly. If you're working with BMC, then it is likely you're doing so for the referrals.

I believe in third party certification of people's skills as a factor when evaluating an individual's capabilities. However, certification alone doesn't count because some people are good at taking tests. I also feel that practical experience, attitude and drive are more important factors. I'll take someone that is a short on "certified credentials", but long on experience and initiative over the converse any day!

Just my $0.02.

Derek

On Mon, 2005-04-11 at 13:40 +0100, Elrefaey, Ashraf wrote:


**

Hi Norm,



Have you looked at the remedy courses prices recently? - I know it's not the point but with prices getting lower and nice promotions most of the time I've decided to become an RSP and I'm half-way through it already.



I don't think having an independent certification authority will be fair for remedy, a company we all love ;-)



I agree with you though that remedy courses used to cost a lot but it's getting much better now.



Best regards,

Ash



-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96 CG/SCTOA
Sent: 08 April 2005 20:50
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: OT: Independent Certification Authority




**

Listers:



I have an idea that's sort of related to the ongoing (and seemingly never-ending) phony RSP thread. I would like everyone's opinion of the idea of establishing an independent, "open," impartial, and virtually free certification body.



I know there are tons of folks out there--many on this list--that do not have RSPs but their knowledge of Remedy certainly warrants it. As another lister posted earlier, many of us (myself included) simply don't want to spend the ludicrous $10,000 to get a professional certification.



So here's my idea: Form our own certification authority. It would be completely open. It could be established as a nonprofit organization. To earn the certification there would be no mandatory classes--just a very comprehensive test. The test would be administered online, and results could be delivered instantly. Now in the first paragraph I said the certification would be virtually free. What I mean by that is, people wanting to take a cert would be required to make a $20-$100 donation. The donations would cover operating costs (web server, test development, certificate printing, etc.).



Remedy could be just one professional certification offered. The certification body could offer certs in Oracle, Microsoft, Cisco, etc., too. Another thought I had was the creation of a Computer Science certification. This certification would be more or less equivalent to a Computer Science degree in that the candidate would have to demonstrate thorough knowledge of calculus, C++, database design, networks, technical writing, etc. It would test a person on all the core topics of a traditional CS degree but would eliminate all the bunk (Speech, Drama, Fine Arts, Foreign Language, etc.). Plus it would allow folks who have acquired all the necessary qualifications of a CS degree to have a CS credential (again, a certificate--not a degree) without having to go back to school for four years (hard to do when you're already working a full-time profession). Yes, other community colleges and tech schools offer such certificates, but this one would be free.



Once the independent certification authority got up and running and the word spread, companies from all over would begin recognizing these certificates as credible. That way those who don't want to shell out $10,000 for a certification can still qualify for job listings that say a certification is required.



Thoughts?

Norm

This posting was submitted via the Web interface




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Derek Berube
Wildstar Technologies, LLC.
1453 Riverview Run Lane
Suwanee, Georgia 30024
(404) 444-5283
http://www.wildstartech.com/

AIM Handle: BerubeDB
MSN Messenger: derekberube@hotmail.com
Yahoo! Messenger: derekberube
This posting was submitted via the Web interface

AOL

Also hold an RAC a few years ago, but also need to take the complete
RSP. No way.

--
Jarl

On Apr 11, 2005 3:26 PM, Derek Berube wrote:
> ** Just to chime in on this..
>
> I have been through the RAC certification program and officially held the
> certification until about two years ago when I decided to head out on my own
> again. Some time after that, I inquired as to what I would need to do to
> "officially" use the RSP moniker (since I wasn't a bonafide Remedy partner).
> I was expecting that they would come back and tell me that I needed to take
> the ARS 6 delta class; however, I was told that I would need to go through
> the entire RSP curriculum.
>
> I thought that was completely ridiculous especially since the RAC curriculum
> is more involved than what is required for RSP. Had they told me all I
> needed was the delta class, I would have asked them where to sign. It is my
> opinion that Remedy's primary goal with it's education arm is revenue
> generation. Truly establishing a level of excellence in the field is
> secondary. Over the last eight years I've spent working in this field, I've
> met a number of people that held the RAC certification but didn't, in my
> opinion, possess the requisite skills. I've also met some fantastic,
> self-taught AR System developers that haven't attended a single class.
>
> The AR System community recognizing a third-party certification program
> would be more important/relevant than Remedy recognizing it. After all, how
> many people doing AR System development work as freelance consultants are
> actually doing that work for BMC Software directly. If you're working with
> BMC, then it is likely you're doing so for the referrals.
>
> I believe in third party certification of people's skills as a factor when
> evaluating an individual's capabilities. However, certification alone
> doesn't count because some people are good at taking tests. I also feel
> that practical experience, attitude and drive are more important factors.
> I'll take someone that is a short on "certified credentials", but long on
> experience and initiative over the converse any day!
>
> Just my $0.02.
>
> Derek
>
>
> On Mon, 2005-04-11 at 13:40 +0100, Elrefaey, Ashraf wrote:
> **
> Hi Norm,
>
> Have you looked at the remedy courses prices recently? - I know it's not the
> point but with prices getting lower and nice promotions most of the time
> I've decided to become an RSP and I'm half-way through it already.
>
> I don't think having an independent certification authority will be fair for
> remedy, a company we all love ;-)
>
> I agree with you though that remedy courses used to cost a lot but it's
> getting much better now.
>
> Best regards,
> Ash
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96 CG/SCTOA
> Sent: 08 April 2005 20:50
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: OT: Independent Certification Authority
>
>
>
> **
> Listers:
>
> I have an idea that's sort of related to the ongoing (and seemingly
> never-ending) phony RSP thread. I would like everyone's opinion of the idea
> of establishing an independent, "open," impartial, and virtually free
> certification body.
>
> I know there are tons of folks out there--many on this list--that do not
> have RSPs but their knowledge of Remedy certainly warrants it. As another
> lister posted earlier, many of us (myself included) simply don't want to
> spend the ludicrous $10,000 to get a professional certification.
>
> So here's my idea: Form our own certification authority. It would be
> completely open. It could be established as a nonprofit organization. To
> earn the certification there would be no mandatory classes--just a very
> comprehensive test. The test would be administered online, and results
> could be delivered instantly. Now in the first paragraph I said the
> certification would be virtually free. What I mean by that is, people
> wanting to take a cert would be required to make a $20-$100 donation. The
> donations would cover operating costs (web server, test development,
> certificate printing, etc.).
>
> Remedy could be just one professional certification offered. The
> certification body could offer certs in Oracle, Microsoft, Cisco, etc., too.
> Another thought I had was the creation of a Computer Science certification.
> This certification would be more or less equivalent to a Computer Science
> degree in that the candidate would have to demonstrate thorough knowledge of
> calculus, C++, database design, networks, technical writing, etc. It would
> test a person on all the core topics of a traditional CS degree but would
> eliminate all the bunk (Speech, Drama, Fine Arts, Foreign Language, etc.).
> Plus it would allow folks who have acquired all the necessary qualifications
> of a CS degree to have a CS credential (again, a certificate--not a degree)
> without having to go back to school for four years (hard to do when you're
> already working a full-time profession). Yes, other community colleges and
> tech schools offer such certificates, but this one would be free.
>
> Once the independent certification authority got up and running and the word
> spread, companies from all over would begin recognizing these certificates
> as credible. That way those who don't want to shell out $10,000 for a
> certification can still qualify for job listings that say a certification is
> required.
>
> Thoughts?
> Norm
> This posting was submitted
> via the Web interface
>
>
> *************************************************************************************
> The message is intended for the named addressee only and may not be
> disclosed to or used by anyone else, nor may it be copied in any way.
>
> The contents of this message and its attachments are confidential and may
> also be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the named addressee
> and/or have received this message in error, please advise us by e-mailing
> security@colt.net and delete the message and any attachments without
> retaining any copies.
>
> Internet communications are not secure and COLT does not accept
> responsibility for this message, its contents nor responsibility for any
> viruses.
>
> No contracts can be created or varied on behalf of COLT Telecommunications,
> its subsidiaries or affiliates ("COLT") and any other party by email
> Communications unless expressly agreed in writing with such other party.
>
> Please note that incoming emails will be automatically scanned to eliminate
> potential viruses and unsolicited promotional emails. For more information
> refer to www.colt.net or contact us on +44(0)20 7390 3900.
> This posting was submitted
> via the Web interface
>
>
> Derek Berube
> Wildstar Technologies, LLC.
> 1453 Riverview Run Lane
> Suwanee, Georgia 30024
> (404) 444-5283
> http://www.wildstartech.com/
>
> AIM Handle: BerubeDB
> MSN Messenger: derekberube@hotmail.com
> Yahoo! Messenger: derekberube
> This posting was submitted
> via the Web interface


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

**

I agree. I checked the Remedy website today and their regular training classes appear to still cost $500 per day.



Andy L. Mayfield
System Operation Specialist
Alabama Power Company
Office: 8-226-1805






From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96 CG/SCTOA
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 8:14 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


**
Well, I checked the price this morning, and for the RSP bundle, the cost is $10,000. That's pretty steep to me, considering many folks already know most of the material presented in those classes. And if your employer doesn't pay for it, then what? You have to shell out the $10,000 yourself.

In my opinion, if this were a true professional certification program, Remedy would allow people to test for the certification without having taken any of Remedy's courses, like Microsoft does. It's clearly just a revenue generator for Remedy.

Personally, I don't see how an independent certification authority would be "unfair" to Remedy. If Remedy was concerned about being "fair," they would allow what I just mentioned.



From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Elrefaey, Ashraf
Sent: 04/11/2005 7:41 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


**
Hi Norm,

Have you looked at the remedy courses prices recently? - I know it's not the point but with prices getting lower and nice promotions most of the time I've decided to become an RSP and I'm half-way through it already.

I don't think having an independent certification authority will be fair for remedy, a company we all love ;-)

I agree with you though that remedy courses used to cost a lot but it's getting much better now.

Best regards,
Ash

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96 CG/SCTOA
Sent: 08 April 2005 20:50
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: OT: Independent Certification Authority



**
Listers:

I have an idea that's sort of related to the ongoing (and seemingly never-ending) phony RSP thread. I would like everyone's opinion of the idea of establishing an independent, "open," impartial, and virtually free certification body.

I know there are tons of folks out there--many on this list--that do not have RSPs but their knowledge of Remedy certainly warrants it. As another lister posted earlier, many of us (myself included) simply don't want to spend the ludicrous $10,000 to get a professional certification.

So here's my idea: Form our own certification authority. It would be completely open. It could be established as a nonprofit organization. To earn the certification there would be no mandatory classes--just a very comprehensive test. The test would be administered online, and results could be delivered instantly. Now in the first paragraph I said the certification would be virtually free. What I mean by that is, people wanting to take a cert would be required to make a $20-$100 donation. The donations would cover operating costs (web server, test development, certificate printing, etc.).

Remedy could be just one professional certification offered. The certification body could offer certs in Oracle, Microsoft, Cisco, etc., too. Another thought I had was the creation of a Computer Science certification. This certification would be more or less equivalent to a Computer Science degree in that the candidate would have to demonstrate thorough knowledge of calculus, C++, database design, networks, technical writing, etc. It would test a person on all the core topics of a traditional CS degree but would eliminate all the bunk (Speech, Drama, Fine Arts, Foreign Language, etc.). Plus it would allow folks who have acquired all the necessary qualifications of a CS degree to have a CS credential (again, a certificate--not a degree) without having to go back to school for four years (hard to do when you're already working a full-time profession). Yes, other community colleges and tech schools offer such certificates, but this one would be free.

Once the independent certification authority got up and running and the word spread, companies from all over would begin recognizing these certificates as credible. That way those who don't want to shell out $10,000 for a certification can still qualify for job listings that say a certification is required.

Thoughts?
Norm
This posting was submitted via the Web interface



*************************************************************************************
The message is intended for the named addressee only and may not be disclosed to or used by anyone else, nor may it be copied in any way.

The contents of this message and its attachments are confidential and may also be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the named addressee and/or have received this message in error, please advise us by e-mailing security@colt.net and delete the message and any attachments without retaining any copies.

Internet communications are not secure and COLT does not accept responsibility for this message, its contents nor responsibility for any viruses.

No contracts can be created or varied on behalf of COLT Telecommunications, its subsidiaries or affiliates ("COLT") and any other party by email Communications unless expressly agreed in writing with such other party.

Please note that incoming emails will be automatically scanned to eliminate potential viruses and unsolicited promotional emails. For more information refer to www.colt.net or contact us on +44(0)20 7390 3900.
This posting was submitted via the Web interface This posting was submitted via the Web interface

This posting was submitted via the Web interface

**
Definitely yes to the last two questions, if at all possible. I took copious notes on my laptop during the general sessions, then put it back in my room for the breakouts, for which we don't have desks generally. They hand out notes (PP slide printouts, usually) that you can take notes on for that, and you have the books of all the sessions as well.

Staying at the hotel makes it easier to be there from dawn to whenever. Generally, things get going about 7 - 7:30, and wrap up for the night around 11.

Look forward to seeing you there!

Rick



From: Thomas Altamore
Sent: Wed 4/13/2005 9:25 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


**
OK I'm definitely gonna have to watch you sing that song.
This is going to be the first time I make it to a RUG.
What would be some of the classes and seminars that
would be most beneficial? Should I bring a laptop?
Is it best to stay at the Hotel? I'm really looking foward to this.

Best Regards,
Tom Altamore

>>> dan.bloom@SYMPATICO.CA 4/13/2005 9:54:00 AM >>>

Chris,
Or was that the thought of both of us singing?
(does it to me).

You're part of it too.
... Daniel
ps. another incentive to be at RUG2005?
It's okay, I'll bring ear plugs :-)

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Chris Woyton
Sent: April 12, 2005 23:13
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


Er...didn't like the specialty certification idea?

Or did the thought of Dan singing bring that on? ;)


--- Herb Partlow
wrote:

> Oh nooooooooooooooooo
>
> Sincerely
> Herb Partlow
> President/CEO
> IB Technical Consulting, Inc.
> (B) 408-253-0344
> (M) 408-309-5316
> Herb@ibtechnicalconsulting.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Chris
> Woyton
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 7:56 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
> The best part of RUG is hanging out with Gidd, Zandi
> and Daniel. You can't buy entertainment that good.
>
> Besides, Dan's singing this year.
>
> He promised.
>



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Tom,

It is definitely better to stay at the hotel. You can justify it by not
having to rent a car. It is much easier to drop off materials, or to
freshen up every once in a while. It's kinda like working out of the
house...

You can attend the pre-RUG classes, but I found much of the information that
was shared there was also disseminated during RUG. If you are unfamiliar
with an area that you would like to be better acquainted with, you may want
to take the class offered before RUG since the session may be over your head
to gain much out of it.

You can bring a laptop if you find the need for staying current on e-mail,
but you probably don't want to bring it to the sessions since they are
usually very full, and you can do just as good or better of a job taking
notes and transferring them to documents later.

Regards,
Rick Ponzo
Integrits Corporation
ponzo@integrits.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Altamore"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 9:25 AM
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


> ---------------------- Information from the mail
> header -----------------------
> Sender: "Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)"
>
> Poster: Thomas Altamore
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> This is a MIME message. If you are reading this text, you may want to
> consider changing to a mail reader or gateway that understands how to
> properly handle MIME multipart messages.
>
> --=PartC4E7D6F4.0=
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
> OK I'm definitely gonna have to watch you sing that song.
> This is going to be the first time I make it to a RUG.
> What would be some of the classes and seminars that
> would be most beneficial? Should I bring a laptop?
> Is it best to stay at the Hotel? I'm really looking foward to this.
>
> Best Regards,
> Tom Altamore
>
>>>> dan.bloom@SYMPATICO.CA 4/13/2005 9:54:00 AM >>>
>
> Chris,
> Or was that the thought of both of us singing?
> (does it to me).
>
> You're part of it too.
> ... Daniel
> ps. another incentive to be at RUG2005?
> It's okay, I'll bring ear plugs :-)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Chris Woyton
> Sent: April 12, 2005 23:13
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
>
> Er...didn't like the specialty certification idea?
>
> Or did the thought of Dan singing bring that on? ;)
>
>
> --- Herb Partlow
> wrote:
>
>> Oh nooooooooooooooooo
>>
>> Sincerely
>> Herb Partlow
>> President/CEO
>> IB Technical Consulting, Inc.
>> (B) 408-253-0344
>> (M) 408-309-5316
>> Herb@ibtechnicalconsulting.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
>> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Chris
>> Woyton
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 7:56 PM
>> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
>> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>>
>> The best part of RUG is hanging out with Gidd, Zandi
>> and Daniel. You can't buy entertainment that good.
>>
>> Besides, Dan's singing this year.
>>
>> He promised.
>>
>
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
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> Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>
> **
>
> > charset=3Diso-8859-1"=
>>
>
>
>

OK I'm definitely gonna have to watch you sing that song.

>

This is going to be the first time I make it to a RUG.

>

What would be some of the classes and seminars that

>

would be most beneficial? Should I bring a laptop?

>

Is it best to stay at the Hotel? I'm really looking foward to =
> this.

>

 

>

Best Regards,

>

Tom Altamore

>>> dan.bloom@SYMPATICO.CA 4/13/2005 =
> 9:54:00 AM >>>

>

Chris,
Or was that the thought of both of
> =
> us singing?
(does it to me).

You're part of it too.
... =
> Daniel
ps. another incentive to be at RUG2005?
    =
> It's okay, I'll bring ear plugs :-)

-----Original
> Message-----
Fr=
> om: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[> href=3D"mailto:ar=
> slist@ARSLIST.ORG]On">mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]On Behalf Of Chris =
> Woyton
Sent: April 12, 2005 23:13
To:
> arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject:=
> Re: Independent Certification Authority


Er...didn't like the =
> specialty certification idea?

Or did the thought of Dan singing =
> bring that on? ;)


--- Herb Partlow
> <Herb@IBTECHNICALCONSULTIN=
> G.COM>
wrote:

> Oh nooooooooooooooooo
>
> =
> Sincerely
> Herb Partlow
> President/CEO
> IB Technical
> =
> Consulting, Inc.
> (B) 408-253-0344
> (M) 408-309-5316
>
> =
> Herb@ibtechnicalconsulting.com
>
>
> -----Original =
> Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion
> list(ARSList)> R>> [> href=3D"mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]">mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG]=
> On Behalf Of Chris
> Woyton
> Sent: Tuesday, April 12, =
> 2005 7:56 PM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: =
> Independent Certification Authority
>
> The best part of RUG =
> is hanging out with Gidd, Zandi
> and Daniel. You can't buy =
> entertainment that good.
>
> Besides, Dan's singing this =
> year.
>
> He
> promised.
>
<snip>

=
>
U=
> NSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at > href=3D"http://www.ARSLIST.org"=
>>http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: >>href=3D"mailto:support@arslist.=
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> This posting was submitted via the Web
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**
It's just not only the classes, but the locations!

At least MS you can take the tests & courses in just about all major cities. So that might be another 10k just in incurred expenses on top of the courses itself if you have to travel.

Den




From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96 CG/SCTOA
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 7:14 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


**
Well, I checked the price this morning, and for the RSP bundle, the cost is $10,000. That's pretty steep to me, considering many folks already know most of the material presented in those classes. And if your employer doesn't pay for it, then what? You have to shell out the $10,000 yourself.

In my opinion, if this were a true professional certification program, Remedy would allow people to test for the certification without having taken any of Remedy's courses, like Microsoft does. It's clearly just a revenue generator for Remedy.

Personally, I don't see how an independent certification authority would be "unfair" to Remedy. If Remedy was concerned about being "fair," they would allow what I just mentioned.



From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Elrefaey, Ashraf
Sent: 04/11/2005 7:41 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority


**
Hi Norm,

Have you looked at the remedy courses prices recently? - I know it's not the point but with prices getting lower and nice promotions most of the time I've decided to become an RSP and I'm half-way through it already.

I don't think having an independent certification authority will be fair for remedy, a company we all love ;-)

I agree with you though that remedy courses used to cost a lot but it's getting much better now.

Best regards,
Ash

-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96 CG/SCTOA
Sent: 08 April 2005 20:50
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: OT: Independent Certification Authority



**
Listers:

I have an idea that's sort of related to the ongoing (and seemingly never-ending) phony RSP thread. I would like everyone's opinion of the idea of establishing an independent, "open," impartial, and virtually free certification body.

I know there are tons of folks out there--many on this list--that do not have RSPs but their knowledge of Remedy certainly warrants it. As another lister posted earlier, many of us (myself included) simply don't want to spend the ludicrous $10,000 to get a professional certification.

So here's my idea: Form our own certification authority. It would be completely open. It could be established as a nonprofit organization. To earn the certification there would be no mandatory classes--just a very comprehensive test. The test would be administered online, and results could be delivered instantly. Now in the first paragraph I said the certification would be virtually free. What I mean by that is, people wanting to take a cert would be required to make a $20-$100 donation. The donations would cover operating costs (web server, test development, certificate printing, etc.).

Remedy could be just one professional certification offered. The certification body could offer certs in Oracle, Microsoft, Cisco, etc., too. Another thought I had was the creation of a Computer Science certification. This certification would be more or less equivalent to a Computer Science degree in that the candidate would have to demonstrate thorough knowledge of calculus, C++, database design, networks, technical writing, etc. It would test a person on all the core topics of a traditional CS degree but would eliminate all the bunk (Speech, Drama, Fine Arts, Foreign Language, etc.). Plus it would allow folks who have acquired all the necessary qualifications of a CS degree to have a CS credential (again, a certificate--not a degree) without having to go back to school for four years (hard to do when you're already working a full-time profession). Yes, other community colleges and tech schools offer such certificates, but this one would be free.

Once the independent certification authority got up and running and the word spread, companies from all over would begin recognizing these certificates as credible. That way those who don't want to shell out $10,000 for a certification can still qualify for job listings that say a certification is required.

Thoughts?
Norm
This posting was submitted via the Web interface



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This posting was submitted via the Web interface This posting was submitted via the Web interface

This posting was submitted via the Web interface

But, there is a HUGE difference in market size between MS products and
BMC/Remedy. It's just not cost effective to offer classes at that
level.

Remedy has done a better job in the US over the last 5 years in trying
to offer more classes in more locations. But we're just never going
to see that many of them because the demand isn't there.

Warren


On Apr 12, 2005 8:09 AM, Fong, Den wrote:
> **
> It's just not only the classes, but the locations!
>
> At least MS you can take the tests & courses in just about all major cities.
> So that might be another 10k just in incurred expenses on top of the
> courses itself if you have to travel.
>
> Den
>
>
>
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96 CG/SCTOA
> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 7:14 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
> **
> Well, I checked the price this morning, and for the RSP bundle, the cost is
> $10,000. That's pretty steep to me, considering many folks already know
> most of the material presented in those classes. And if your employer
> doesn't pay for it, then what? You have to shell out the $10,000 yourself.
>
> In my opinion, if this were a true professional certification program,
> Remedy would allow people to test for the certification without having taken
> any of Remedy's courses, like Microsoft does. It's clearly just a revenue
> generator for Remedy.
>
> Personally, I don't see how an independent certification authority would be
> "unfair" to Remedy. If Remedy was concerned about being "fair," they would
> allow what I just mentioned.
>
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Elrefaey, Ashraf
> Sent: 04/11/2005 7:41 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Independent Certification Authority
>
> **
> Hi Norm,
>
> Have you looked at the remedy courses prices recently? - I know it's not the
> point but with prices getting lower and nice promotions most of the time
> I've decided to become an RSP and I'm half-way through it already.
>
> I don't think having an independent certification authority will be fair for
> remedy, a company we all love ;-)
>
> I agree with you though that remedy courses used to cost a lot but it's
> getting much better now.
>
> Best regards,
> Ash
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
> [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Kaiser Norm E Civ 96 CG/SCTOA
> Sent: 08 April 2005 20:50
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: OT: Independent Certification Authority
>
> **
> Listers:
>
> I have an idea that's sort of related to the ongoing (and seemingly
> never-ending) phony RSP thread. I would like everyone's opinion of the idea
> of establishing an independent, "open," impartial, and virtually free
> certification body.
>
> I know there are tons of folks out there--many on this list--that do not
> have RSPs but their knowledge of Remedy certainly warrants it. As another
> lister posted earlier, many of us (myself included) simply don't want to
> spend the ludicrous $10,000 to get a professional certification.
>
> So here's my idea: Form our own certification authority. It would be
> completely open. It could be established as a nonprofit organization. To
> earn the certification there would be no mandatory classes--just a very
> comprehensive test. The test would be administered online, and results
> could be delivered instantly. Now in the first paragraph I said the
> certification would be virtually free. What I mean by that is, people
> wanting to take a cert would be required to make a $20-$100 donation. The
> donations would cover operating costs (web server, test development,
> certificate printing, etc.).
>
> Remedy could be just one professional certification offered. The
> certification body could offer certs in Oracle, Microsoft, Cisco, etc., too.
> Another thought I had was the creation of a Computer Science certification.
> This certification would be more or less equivalent to a Computer Science
> degree in that the candidate would have to demonstrate thorough knowledge of
> calculus, C++, database design, networks, technical writing, etc. It would
> test a person on all the core topics of a traditional CS degree but would
> eliminate all the bunk (Speech, Drama, Fine Arts, Foreign Language, etc.).
> Plus it would allow folks who have acquired all the necessary qualifications
> of a CS degree to have a CS credential (again, a certificate--not a degree)
> without having to go back to school for four years (hard to do when you're
> already working a full-time profession). Yes, other community colleges and
> tech schools offer such certificates, but this one would be free.
>
> Once the independent certification authority got up and running and the word
> spread, companies from all over would begin recognizing these certificates
> as credible. That way those who don't want to shell out $10,000 for a
> certification can still qualify for job listings that say a certification is
> required.
>
> Thoughts?
> NormThis posting was
> submitted via the Web interface
>
> *************************************************************************************
> The message is intended for the named addressee only and may not be
> disclosed to or used by anyone else, nor may it be copied in any way.
>
> The contents of this message and its attachments are confidential and may
> also be subject to legal privilege. If you are not the named addressee
> and/or have received this message in error, please advise us by e-mailing
> security@colt.net and delete the message and any attachments without
> retaining any copies.
>
> Internet communications are not secure and COLT does not accept
> responsibility for this message, its contents nor responsibility for any
> viruses.
>
> No contracts can be created or varied on behalf of COLT Telecommunications,
> its subsidiaries or affiliates ("COLT") and any other party by email
> Communications unless expressly agreed in writing with such other party.
>
> Please note that incoming emails will be automatically scanned to eliminate
> potential viruses and unsolicited promotional emails. For more information
> refer to www.colt.net or contact us on +44(0)20 7390 3900.
> This posting was submitted
> via the Web interface This
> posting was submitted via the Web interface
> This posting was submitted
> via the Web interface


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.


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