Fellow Remedy Developers

I would like to get some professional advice on how
best to handle a certain situation that has developed
within the group I work with. I have discovered that
one of my coworkers has been falsely claiming to have
completed the Remedy Skilled Professional
certification program. I found out this information
by chance while obtaining course information on the
RSP program from Remedy's Education department.
According to their database, the individual has taken
all required courses, but failed both the original and
re-take certification tests.

The problem is further compounded as the employee
consistently informs newly hired managers within our
company of his completed certification status. Our
Assistant Director has also announced the employee's
"certification" to the rest of the department for
congratulations. Considering the potentially
embarrassing situation this will create with my own
managers, I would enjoy some advice on how best to
proceed with this information. Furthermore, should
anyone within Remedy's Education department be
informed of this?

Remedy Anonymous
Senior Remedy Developer



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You either blow the whistle or don't. You can't exactly finger this
person in a 'nice' way can you? And you can't ask them quietly to
rectify the situation, as it is obviously past the point where they can
discretely 'adjust' the misconception they have created.

Obviously you could use the anonymous account you set up to make this
post, to alert your managers - but are you happy to leave it alone after
that if they do nothing?

A pretty common moral expectation is being violated here - but there are
the 'rules' and then there are always the specific circumstances 'on the
ground' so to speak. Is this person doing soild work, or are they crap
at what they do? Do they have a family? Etc. 'Outing' them - ie., taking
the radical step of publishing their name to this list for example, is
an extreme action in terms of the potential consequences to their
career. Oft evil is done in defence of the good.

Good luck.

Ric Phillips
Melbourne



-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Anonymous Remedy
Sent: Tuesday, 5 April 2005 10:05 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Need Advice: False Remedy Certification

Fellow Remedy Developers

I would like to get some professional advice on how best to handle a
certain situation that has developed within the group I work with. I
have discovered that one of my coworkers has been falsely claiming to
have completed the Remedy Skilled Professional certification program. I
found out this information by chance while obtaining course information
on the RSP program from Remedy's Education department.
According to their database, the individual has taken all required
courses, but failed both the original and re-take certification tests.

The problem is further compounded as the employee consistently
informs newly hired managers within our company of his completed
certification status. Our Assistant Director has also announced the
employee's "certification" to the rest of the department for
congratulations. Considering the potentially embarrassing situation
this will create with my own managers, I would enjoy some advice on how
best to proceed with this information. Furthermore, should anyone
within Remedy's Education department be informed of this?

Remedy Anonymous
Senior Remedy Developer



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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com



UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)


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RemedyAnon:

You will have to forgive me if I speak plainly and to the point. I am not
going to waste my time or yours trying to sugar-coat the situation or
pretty-up any of the items surrounding it. It is simply not in my nature
to do so.

There are some things in this life that you simply don't do. Blowing smoke
up someones wazoo is on the list. Sure, you can pull someone leg, and joke
a bit - that's one thing. Lying plain-faced though ones teeth for the
purpose of financial, or status gain is another.

A general rule of thumb - don't do anything during the day that you are
gonna have trouble sleeping with that night. It is a simple rule. I don't
know why more people don't obey it.

If your coworker has convinced everyone that he/she is RSP certified, and
is not so, then they have decided to cross a line, and in the process,
done you and the other members of your group a disservice - not to mention
those good people who actually are certified and worked hard to get there.

You and yours have been wronged - plain and simple.

Since your asking for advice, I will give you mine: fry 'em. Don't waste
the time trying to be politically correct. Don't try to construct some
sort of bull story to cover someone else's tail cause you will only
get yourself a part of something that you don't want. Just tell the truth
and present the facts for what they are. This person knew what they were
getting themselves into when the did the deed and they cannot expect not
to have to pay the fiddler at the end of the tune.

There comes a point in time when enough is enough and you have to stand up
and say no more - this far, no further. My question to you would be - are
you there yet?

Think about it, and pray about it; Then put on your boots and go get some.


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(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

Anonymous,

Not that I am questioning your story, because I am not. However I
do think that the method you described for getting someone else's test
scores is a bit.... disappointing.

To be very specific it should be very hard to find out who failed a
test. But it should be easily discovered who passed the test.

I guess what I am saying there should be a way to verify any
certification, but not who has taken the test and failed. If you ask
me, the major flaw in Remedy's certification is the inability to
easily verify the certifications. (IMHO) Even a simple email address
lookup feature that returns a "yes"/"no" response would be enough for
a truly certified person to be able to prove their credentials.

If your employer paid for the class, then they might have a good
reason to verify the success of the training. (And dependent on the
terms and conditions in your company maybe ask for the employee to
repay the expense due to a failure.)


Personally, I would hope that someone from your company could contact
Remedy's RSP program at SkilledPro@remedy.com. I would think that an
email sent from an address at your company should afford a measure of
authentication to inquiry about any employees of that company that has
passed the RSP (or RAC) tests.

If however, the individual paid for the class our of their own pocket,
then the company should only be able to verify the persons current
certification (If it exists.) and not even be told if the person took
the class or not.


And I would like to add that I am personally disappointed in the
individual at BMC (Remedy) that verified that the person in question
failed the test. (and failed it twice) I hope that the BMCRemedy
people who are subscribed to the ARSList will read this thread and at
least review their internal policies on such matters.

The point of any training is to teach. That is not a simple
process as we all learn in different ways and at different speeds.
However, allowing a person to be embarrassed by past failure will only
push them away from the very resources that could, in time, teach them
what they are striving to learn.

I guess this incident is just another reason some one should write an
"ARS for dummy's" book and try to get it published. (Even if it is
published on their own PC printer. No book as ever shamed you because
you were unable to complete reading the book.)


And while we are on the topic...

Anyone want to bet how long RSP will even exist? Will it become BSP?
(BMC Skilled Professional? Hey... they have started to re-brand the
website... I can only imagine it is just a matter of time before the
certification names change.)

--
Carey Matthew Black
Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP)
ARS = Action Request System(Remedy)

Solution = People + Process + Tools
Fast, Accurate, Cheap.... Pick two.
Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence.

http://www.fellowshipchurch.com

On Apr 4, 2005 7:04 PM, Anonymous Remedy wrote:
> Fellow Remedy Developers
>
> I would like to get some professional advice on how
> best to handle a certain situation that has developed
> within the group I work with. I have discovered that
> one of my coworkers has been falsely claiming to have
> completed the Remedy Skilled Professional
> certification program. I found out this information
> by chance while obtaining course information on the
> RSP program from Remedy's Education department.
> According to their database, the individual has taken
> all required courses, but failed both the original and
> re-take certification tests.
>
> The problem is further compounded as the employee
> consistently informs newly hired managers within our
> company of his completed certification status. Our
> Assistant Director has also announced the employee's
> "certification" to the rest of the department for
> congratulations. Considering the potentially
> embarrassing situation this will create with my own
> managers, I would enjoy some advice on how best to
> proceed with this information. Furthermore, should
> anyone within Remedy's Education department be
> informed of this?
>
> Remedy Anonymous
> Senior Remedy Developer


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

Well, both possible answers to this question have been proffered...Fry
'em or forget 'em. Lots of good things to say about both, but let me
throw in my two cents here....

I'm not a person who normally pulls religion out for a look, but this
is a pretty good place to do so. Of all the bible stories that I was
taught in CCD and 6 years of Catholic school, the one that ALWAYS on a
daily basis comes back to me is a very simple one. "He who is without
sin, cast the first stone". As humans, we have all made mistakes and
choices that are at best ethically/morally questionable. Sometimes we
get away with it and sometimes we get caught with our hands in the
cookie jar. If this person is doing the work that they have misled
people into thinking he/she can do. And if they are keeping their
commitments to the company, then I would say it's between that
individual and the managers. It is a pretty horrible thing to be in a
situation where you must affect the livelihood of another in a way
that can have LASTING repurcussions. In a former life, I worked in an
Employee Relations office for a large public hospital and I saw more
then my fair share of people "doing the right thing" for no other
reason then to blow a whistle. It cost people jobs and family. It is
not something that should be done lightly. So what am I saying? I'd
probably keep my mouth shut unless this is causing harm to others. I
would however consider talking to this individual privately. I don't
know if that is possible for you or not. If you do, make sure that
they understand that you do it as a friend and that you have no
intention of using the information. Tell them that you are just
hopeful that they will find a way themselves to "right" the problem.

Also, from a legal standpoint...and this is IMPORTANT. If you do
decide to say something, you run the risk of a lawsuit. Be sure you
have your ducks in a row.

Warren

On Apr 4, 2005 10:16 PM, Carey Matthew Black wrote:
> Anonymous,
>
> Not that I am questioning your story, because I am not. However I
> do think that the method you described for getting someone else's test
> scores is a bit.... disappointing.
>
> To be very specific it should be very hard to find out who failed a
> test. But it should be easily discovered who passed the test.
>
> I guess what I am saying there should be a way to verify any
> certification, but not who has taken the test and failed. If you ask
> me, the major flaw in Remedy's certification is the inability to
> easily verify the certifications. (IMHO) Even a simple email address
> lookup feature that returns a "yes"/"no" response would be enough for
> a truly certified person to be able to prove their credentials.
>
> If your employer paid for the class, then they might have a good
> reason to verify the success of the training. (And dependent on the
> terms and conditions in your company maybe ask for the employee to
> repay the expense due to a failure.)
>
> Personally, I would hope that someone from your company could contact
> Remedy's RSP program at SkilledPro@remedy.com. I would think that an
> email sent from an address at your company should afford a measure of
> authentication to inquiry about any employees of that company that has
> passed the RSP (or RAC) tests.
>
> If however, the individual paid for the class our of their own pocket,
> then the company should only be able to verify the persons current
> certification (If it exists.) and not even be told if the person took
> the class or not.
>
> And I would like to add that I am personally disappointed in the
> individual at BMC (Remedy) that verified that the person in question
> failed the test. (and failed it twice) I hope that the BMCRemedy
> people who are subscribed to the ARSList will read this thread and at
> least review their internal policies on such matters.
>
> The point of any training is to teach. That is not a simple
> process as we all learn in different ways and at different speeds.
> However, allowing a person to be embarrassed by past failure will only
> push them away from the very resources that could, in time, teach them
> what they are striving to learn.
>
> I guess this incident is just another reason some one should write an
> "ARS for dummy's" book and try to get it published. (Even if it is
> published on their own PC printer. No book as ever shamed you because
> you were unable to complete reading the book.)
>
> And while we are on the topic...
>
> Anyone want to bet how long RSP will even exist? Will it become BSP?
> (BMC Skilled Professional? Hey... they have started to re-brand the
> website... I can only imagine it is just a matter of time before the
> certification names change.)
>
> --
> Carey Matthew Black
> Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP)
> ARS = Action Request System(Remedy)
>
> Solution = People + Process + Tools
> Fast, Accurate, Cheap.... Pick two.
> Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence.
>
> http://www.fellowshipchurch.com
>
> On Apr 4, 2005 7:04 PM, Anonymous Remedy wrote:
> > Fellow Remedy Developers
> >
> > I would like to get some professional advice on how
> > best to handle a certain situation that has developed
> > within the group I work with. I have discovered that
> > one of my coworkers has been falsely claiming to have
> > completed the Remedy Skilled Professional
> > certification program. I found out this information
> > by chance while obtaining course information on the
> > RSP program from Remedy's Education department.
> > According to their database, the individual has taken
> > all required courses, but failed both the original and
> > re-take certification tests.
> >
> > The problem is further compounded as the employee
> > consistently informs newly hired managers within our
> > company of his completed certification status. Our
> > Assistant Director has also announced the employee's
> > "certification" to the rest of the department for
> > congratulations. Considering the potentially
> > embarrassing situation this will create with my own
> > managers, I would enjoy some advice on how best to
> > proceed with this information. Furthermore, should
> > anyone within Remedy's Education department be
> > informed of this?
> >
> > Remedy Anonymous
> > Senior Remedy Developer
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

"I would however consider talking to this individual privately. I don't
know if that is possible for you or not. If you do, make sure that they
understand that you do it as a friend and that you have no intention of
using the information. Tell them that you are just hopeful that they will
find a way themselves to "right" the problem."

I agree. I would go to him and work with him to correct the issue.

-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Baltimore [mailto:warrenbaltimore@GMAIL.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 9:25 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Need Advice: False Remedy Certification

Well, both possible answers to this question have been proffered...Fry
'em or forget 'em. Lots of good things to say about both, but let me
throw in my two cents here....

I'm not a person who normally pulls religion out for a look, but this
is a pretty good place to do so. Of all the bible stories that I was
taught in CCD and 6 years of Catholic school, the one that ALWAYS on a
daily basis comes back to me is a very simple one. "He who is without
sin, cast the first stone". As humans, we have all made mistakes and
choices that are at best ethically/morally questionable. Sometimes we
get away with it and sometimes we get caught with our hands in the
cookie jar. If this person is doing the work that they have misled
people into thinking he/she can do. And if they are keeping their
commitments to the company, then I would say it's between that
individual and the managers. It is a pretty horrible thing to be in a
situation where you must affect the livelihood of another in a way
that can have LASTING repurcussions. In a former life, I worked in an
Employee Relations office for a large public hospital and I saw more
then my fair share of people "doing the right thing" for no other
reason then to blow a whistle. It cost people jobs and family. It is
not something that should be done lightly. So what am I saying? I'd
probably keep my mouth shut unless this is causing harm to others. I
would however consider talking to this individual privately. I don't
know if that is possible for you or not. If you do, make sure that
they understand that you do it as a friend and that you have no
intention of using the information. Tell them that you are just
hopeful that they will find a way themselves to "right" the problem.

Also, from a legal standpoint...and this is IMPORTANT. If you do
decide to say something, you run the risk of a lawsuit. Be sure you
have your ducks in a row.

Warren

On Apr 4, 2005 10:16 PM, Carey Matthew Black wrote:
> Anonymous,
>
> Not that I am questioning your story, because I am not. However I
> do think that the method you described for getting someone else's test
> scores is a bit.... disappointing.
>
> To be very specific it should be very hard to find out who failed a
> test. But it should be easily discovered who passed the test.
>
> I guess what I am saying there should be a way to verify any
> certification, but not who has taken the test and failed. If you ask
> me, the major flaw in Remedy's certification is the inability to
> easily verify the certifications. (IMHO) Even a simple email address
> lookup feature that returns a "yes"/"no" response would be enough for
> a truly certified person to be able to prove their credentials.
>
> If your employer paid for the class, then they might have a good
> reason to verify the success of the training. (And dependent on the
> terms and conditions in your company maybe ask for the employee to
> repay the expense due to a failure.)
>
> Personally, I would hope that someone from your company could contact
> Remedy's RSP program at SkilledPro@remedy.com. I would think that an
> email sent from an address at your company should afford a measure of
> authentication to inquiry about any employees of that company that has
> passed the RSP (or RAC) tests.
>
> If however, the individual paid for the class our of their own pocket,
> then the company should only be able to verify the persons current
> certification (If it exists.) and not even be told if the person took
> the class or not.
>
> And I would like to add that I am personally disappointed in the
> individual at BMC (Remedy) that verified that the person in question
> failed the test. (and failed it twice) I hope that the BMCRemedy
> people who are subscribed to the ARSList will read this thread and at
> least review their internal policies on such matters.
>
> The point of any training is to teach. That is not a simple
> process as we all learn in different ways and at different speeds.
> However, allowing a person to be embarrassed by past failure will only
> push them away from the very resources that could, in time, teach them
> what they are striving to learn.
>
> I guess this incident is just another reason some one should write an
> "ARS for dummy's" book and try to get it published. (Even if it is
> published on their own PC printer. No book as ever shamed you because
> you were unable to complete reading the book.)
>
> And while we are on the topic...
>
> Anyone want to bet how long RSP will even exist? Will it become BSP?
> (BMC Skilled Professional? Hey... they have started to re-brand the
> website... I can only imagine it is just a matter of time before the
> certification names change.)
>
> --
> Carey Matthew Black
> Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP)
> ARS = Action Request System(Remedy)
>
> Solution = People + Process + Tools
> Fast, Accurate, Cheap.... Pick two.
> Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence.
>
> http://www.fellowshipchurch.com
>
> On Apr 4, 2005 7:04 PM, Anonymous Remedy wrote:
> > Fellow Remedy Developers
> >
> > I would like to get some professional advice on how
> > best to handle a certain situation that has developed
> > within the group I work with. I have discovered that
> > one of my coworkers has been falsely claiming to have
> > completed the Remedy Skilled Professional
> > certification program. I found out this information
> > by chance while obtaining course information on the
> > RSP program from Remedy's Education department.
> > According to their database, the individual has taken
> > all required courses, but failed both the original and
> > re-take certification tests.
> >
> > The problem is further compounded as the employee
> > consistently informs newly hired managers within our
> > company of his completed certification status. Our
> > Assistant Director has also announced the employee's
> > "certification" to the rest of the department for
> > congratulations. Considering the potentially
> > embarrassing situation this will create with my own
> > managers, I would enjoy some advice on how best to
> > proceed with this information. Furthermore, should
> > anyone within Remedy's Education department be
> > informed of this?
> >
> > Remedy Anonymous
> > Senior Remedy Developer
>
>


> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.



UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

Good points, Warren - only one quibble. A lie, told intentionally and to gain advantage in some way, to me, is different than a mistake. LIke Matt Black's sigline - I usually try to assume incompetence rather than malice, but that's the difference between a mistake and a lie.

A simple "Dude, if you go around telling people you're RSP when you're not, someone's eventually going to check - what happens to you then?" is probably the best next step. Or maybe if you told him you read something that said more employers are checking certs now, and Remedy is being supportive of that, he might get the message, and appreciate your help.

If something substantial like a promotion's on the line, and he's still lying about it to falsely further his career over others, then further conversations might have to ensue. If he won't listen, then maybe an anonymous dime to his boss, or to HR, might be in order. I would let my actions be driven by his arrogance - if he's repentant after the first conversation, it need go no further. If he wants to up the ante, I'd consider how to play my aces. But Warren's very right - it is not a peril-free journey for you, either.

Rick



From: Warren Baltimore
Sent: Tue 4/5/2005 9:24 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Need Advice: False Remedy Certification


Well, both possible answers to this question have been proffered...Fry
'em or forget 'em. Lots of good things to say about both, but let me
throw in my two cents here....

I'm not a person who normally pulls religion out for a look, but this
is a pretty good place to do so. Of all the bible stories that I was
taught in CCD and 6 years of Catholic school, the one that ALWAYS on a
daily basis comes back to me is a very simple one. "He who is without
sin, cast the first stone". As humans, we have all made mistakes and
choices that are at best ethically/morally questionable. Sometimes we
get away with it and sometimes we get caught with our hands in the
cookie jar. If this person is doing the work that they have misled
people into thinking he/she can do. And if they are keeping their
commitments to the company, then I would say it's between that
individual and the managers. It is a pretty horrible thing to be in a
situation where you must affect the livelihood of another in a way
that can have LASTING repurcussions. In a former life, I worked in an
Employee Relations office for a large public hospital and I saw more
then my fair share of people "doing the right thing" for no other
reason then to blow a whistle. It cost people jobs and family. It is
not something that should be done lightly. So what am I saying? I'd
probably keep my mouth shut unless this is causing harm to others. I
would however consider talking to this individual privately. I don't
know if that is possible for you or not. If you do, make sure that
they understand that you do it as a friend and that you have no
intention of using the information. Tell them that you are just
hopeful that they will find a way themselves to "right" the problem.

Also, from a legal standpoint...and this is IMPORTANT. If you do
decide to say something, you run the risk of a lawsuit. Be sure you
have your ducks in a row.

Warren

On Apr 4, 2005 10:16 PM, Carey Matthew Black wrote:
> Anonymous,
>
> Not that I am questioning your story, because I am not. However I
> do think that the method you described for getting someone else's test
> scores is a bit.... disappointing.
>
> To be very specific it should be very hard to find out who failed a
> test. But it should be easily discovered who passed the test.
>
> I guess what I am saying there should be a way to verify any
> certification, but not who has taken the test and failed. If you ask
> me, the major flaw in Remedy's certification is the inability to
> easily verify the certifications. (IMHO) Even a simple email address
> lookup feature that returns a "yes"/"no" response would be enough for
> a truly certified person to be able to prove their credentials.
>
> If your employer paid for the class, then they might have a good
> reason to verify the success of the training. (And dependent on the
> terms and conditions in your company maybe ask for the employee to
> repay the expense due to a failure.)
>
> Personally, I would hope that someone from your company could contact
> Remedy's RSP program at SkilledPro@remedy.com. I would think that an
> email sent from an address at your company should afford a measure of
> authentication to inquiry about any employees of that company that has
> passed the RSP (or RAC) tests.
>
> If however, the individual paid for the class our of their own pocket,
> then the company should only be able to verify the persons current
> certification (If it exists.) and not even be told if the person took
> the class or not.
>
> And I would like to add that I am personally disappointed in the
> individual at BMC (Remedy) that verified that the person in question
> failed the test. (and failed it twice) I hope that the BMCRemedy
> people who are subscribed to the ARSList will read this thread and at
> least review their internal policies on such matters.
>
> The point of any training is to teach. That is not a simple
> process as we all learn in different ways and at different speeds.
> However, allowing a person to be embarrassed by past failure will only
> push them away from the very resources that could, in time, teach them
> what they are striving to learn.
>
> I guess this incident is just another reason some one should write an
> "ARS for dummy's" book and try to get it published. (Even if it is
> published on their own PC printer. No book as ever shamed you because
> you were unable to complete reading the book.)
>
> And while we are on the topic...
>
> Anyone want to bet how long RSP will even exist? Will it become BSP?
> (BMC Skilled Professional? Hey... they have started to re-brand the
> website... I can only imagine it is just a matter of time before the
> certification names change.)
>
> --
> Carey Matthew Black
> Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP)
> ARS = Action Request System(Remedy)
>
> Solution = People + Process + Tools
> Fast, Accurate, Cheap.... Pick two.
> Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence.
>
> http://www.fellowshipchurch.com
>
> On Apr 4, 2005 7:04 PM, Anonymous Remedy wrote:
> > Fellow Remedy Developers
> >
> > I would like to get some professional advice on how
> > best to handle a certain situation that has developed
> > within the group I work with. I have discovered that
> > one of my coworkers has been falsely claiming to have
> > completed the Remedy Skilled Professional
> > certification program. I found out this information
> > by chance while obtaining course information on the
> > RSP program from Remedy's Education department.
> > According to their database, the individual has taken
> > all required courses, but failed both the original and
> > re-take certification tests.
> >
> > The problem is further compounded as the employee
> > consistently informs newly hired managers within our
> > company of his completed certification status. Our
> > Assistant Director has also announced the employee's
> > "certification" to the rest of the department for
> > congratulations. Considering the potentially
> > embarrassing situation this will create with my own
> > managers, I would enjoy some advice on how best to
> > proceed with this information. Furthermore, should
> > anyone within Remedy's Education department be
> > informed of this?
> >
> > Remedy Anonymous
> > Senior Remedy Developer
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

I would live and let live. Is there even a way to verify the information
you were given by BMC? God forbid you say something and your information
turns out to be incorrect, guess who will be looking foolish and petty
at that point. The only way I would even consider bringing it up is if I
were in direct competition with that individual for a position. In that
case I would address the issue with the individual directly.


>Andy L. Mayfield
>System Operation Specialist
>Alabama Power Company
Office: 8-226-1805


-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Covert, Jack
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 11:34 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Need Advice: False Remedy Certification

"I would however consider talking to this individual privately. I don't
know if that is possible for you or not. If you do, make sure that they
understand that you do it as a friend and that you have no intention of
using the information. Tell them that you are just hopeful that they
will
find a way themselves to "right" the problem."

I agree. I would go to him and work with him to correct the issue.

-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Baltimore [mailto:warrenbaltimore@GMAIL.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 9:25 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Need Advice: False Remedy Certification

Well, both possible answers to this question have been proffered...Fry
'em or forget 'em. Lots of good things to say about both, but let me
throw in my two cents here....

I'm not a person who normally pulls religion out for a look, but this
is a pretty good place to do so. Of all the bible stories that I was
taught in CCD and 6 years of Catholic school, the one that ALWAYS on a
daily basis comes back to me is a very simple one. "He who is without
sin, cast the first stone". As humans, we have all made mistakes and
choices that are at best ethically/morally questionable. Sometimes we
get away with it and sometimes we get caught with our hands in the
cookie jar. If this person is doing the work that they have misled
people into thinking he/she can do. And if they are keeping their
commitments to the company, then I would say it's between that
individual and the managers. It is a pretty horrible thing to be in a
situation where you must affect the livelihood of another in a way
that can have LASTING repurcussions. In a former life, I worked in an
Employee Relations office for a large public hospital and I saw more
then my fair share of people "doing the right thing" for no other
reason then to blow a whistle. It cost people jobs and family. It is
not something that should be done lightly. So what am I saying? I'd
probably keep my mouth shut unless this is causing harm to others. I
would however consider talking to this individual privately. I don't
know if that is possible for you or not. If you do, make sure that
they understand that you do it as a friend and that you have no
intention of using the information. Tell them that you are just
hopeful that they will find a way themselves to "right" the problem.

Also, from a legal standpoint...and this is IMPORTANT. If you do
decide to say something, you run the risk of a lawsuit. Be sure you
have your ducks in a row.

Warren

On Apr 4, 2005 10:16 PM, Carey Matthew Black
wrote:
> Anonymous,
>
> Not that I am questioning your story, because I am not. However I
> do think that the method you described for getting someone else's test
> scores is a bit.... disappointing.
>
> To be very specific it should be very hard to find out who failed a
> test. But it should be easily discovered who passed the test.
>
> I guess what I am saying there should be a way to verify any
> certification, but not who has taken the test and failed. If you ask
> me, the major flaw in Remedy's certification is the inability to
> easily verify the certifications. (IMHO) Even a simple email address
> lookup feature that returns a "yes"/"no" response would be enough for
> a truly certified person to be able to prove their credentials.
>
> If your employer paid for the class, then they might have a good
> reason to verify the success of the training. (And dependent on the
> terms and conditions in your company maybe ask for the employee to
> repay the expense due to a failure.)
>
> Personally, I would hope that someone from your company could contact
> Remedy's RSP program at SkilledPro@remedy.com. I would think that an
> email sent from an address at your company should afford a measure of
> authentication to inquiry about any employees of that company that has
> passed the RSP (or RAC) tests.
>
> If however, the individual paid for the class our of their own pocket,
> then the company should only be able to verify the persons current
> certification (If it exists.) and not even be told if the person took
> the class or not.
>
> And I would like to add that I am personally disappointed in the
> individual at BMC (Remedy) that verified that the person in question
> failed the test. (and failed it twice) I hope that the BMCRemedy
> people who are subscribed to the ARSList will read this thread and at
> least review their internal policies on such matters.
>
> The point of any training is to teach. That is not a simple
> process as we all learn in different ways and at different speeds.
> However, allowing a person to be embarrassed by past failure will only
> push them away from the very resources that could, in time, teach them
> what they are striving to learn.
>
> I guess this incident is just another reason some one should write an
> "ARS for dummy's" book and try to get it published. (Even if it is
> published on their own PC printer. No book as ever shamed you because
> you were unable to complete reading the book.)
>
> And while we are on the topic...
>
> Anyone want to bet how long RSP will even exist? Will it become BSP?
> (BMC Skilled Professional? Hey... they have started to re-brand the
> website... I can only imagine it is just a matter of time before the
> certification names change.)
>
> --
> Carey Matthew Black
> Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP)
> ARS = Action Request System(Remedy)
>
> Solution = People + Process + Tools
> Fast, Accurate, Cheap.... Pick two.
> Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence.
>
> http://www.fellowshipchurch.com
>
> On Apr 4, 2005 7:04 PM, Anonymous Remedy wrote:
> > Fellow Remedy Developers
> >
> > I would like to get some professional advice on how
> > best to handle a certain situation that has developed
> > within the group I work with. I have discovered that
> > one of my coworkers has been falsely claiming to have
> > completed the Remedy Skilled Professional
> > certification program. I found out this information
> > by chance while obtaining course information on the
> > RSP program from Remedy's Education department.
> > According to their database, the individual has taken
> > all required courses, but failed both the original and
> > re-take certification tests.
> >
> > The problem is further compounded as the employee
> > consistently informs newly hired managers within our
> > company of his completed certification status. Our
> > Assistant Director has also announced the employee's
> > "certification" to the rest of the department for
> > congratulations. Considering the potentially
> > embarrassing situation this will create with my own
> > managers, I would enjoy some advice on how best to
> > proceed with this information. Furthermore, should
> > anyone within Remedy's Education department be
> > informed of this?
> >
> > Remedy Anonymous
> > Senior Remedy Developer
>
>



> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.




UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)



UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

Rick,

No quibbling here, but I consider a lie to be attributable to bad
judgement, ignorance or inattention. I would say lying is pretty bad
judgement.

Not to take away from the action itself. Funny things about the
little lies that are told. They have a way of turning into monsters
that eat all in it's path....

Warren

On Apr 5, 2005 9:46 AM, Rick Cook wrote:
> **
> Good points, Warren - only one quibble. A lie, told intentionally and to
> gain advantage in some way, to me, is different than a mistake. LIke Matt
> Black's sigline - I usually try to assume incompetence rather than malice,
> but that's the difference between a mistake and a lie.
>
> A simple "Dude, if you go around telling people you're RSP when you're not,
> someone's eventually going to check - what happens to you then?" is probably
> the best next step. Or maybe if you told him you read something that said
> more employers are checking certs now, and Remedy is being supportive of
> that, he might get the message, and appreciate your help.
>
> If something substantial like a promotion's on the line, and he's still
> lying about it to falsely further his career over others, then further
> conversations might have to ensue. If he won't listen, then maybe an
> anonymous dime to his boss, or to HR, might be in order. I would let my
> actions be driven by his arrogance - if he's repentant after the first
> conversation, it need go no further. If he wants to up the ante, I'd
> consider how to play my aces. But Warren's very right - it is not a
> peril-free journey for you, either.
>
> Rick
>
>
> From: Warren Baltimore
> Sent: Tue 4/5/2005 9:24 AM
> To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
> Subject: Re: Need Advice: False Remedy Certification
>
>
> Well, both possible answers to this question have been proffered...Fry
'em
> or forget 'em. Lots of good things to say about both, but let me
throw in my
> two cents here....

I'm not a person who normally pulls religion out for a
> look, but this
is a pretty good place to do so. Of all the bible stories
> that I was
taught in CCD and 6 years of Catholic school, the one that ALWAYS
> on a
daily basis comes back to me is a very simple one. "He who is
> without
sin, cast the first stone". As humans, we have all made mistakes
> and
choices that are at best ethically/morally questionable. Sometimes
> we
get away with it and sometimes we get caught with our hands in the
cookie
> jar. If this person is doing the work that they have misled
people into
> thinking he/she can do. And if they are keeping their
commitments to the
> company, then I would say it's between that
individual and the managers. It
> is a pretty horrible thing to be in a
situation where you must affect the
> livelihood of another in a way
that can have LASTING repurcussions. In a
> former life, I worked in an
Employee Relations office for a large public
> hospital and I saw more
then my fair share of people "doing the right thing"
> for no other
reason then to blow a whistle. It cost people jobs and family.
> It is
not something that should be done lightly. So what am I saying?
> I'd
probably keep my mouth shut unless this is causing harm to others.
> I
would however consider talking to this individual privately. I don't
know
> if that is possible for you or not. If you do, make sure that
they
> understand that you do it as a friend and that you have no
intention of
> using the information. Tell them that you are just
hopeful that they will
> find a way themselves to "right" the problem.

Also, from a legal
> standpoint...and this is IMPORTANT. If you do
decide to say something, you
> run the risk of a lawsuit. Be sure you
have your ducks in a row.

Warren

On
> Apr 4, 2005 10:16 PM, Carey Matthew Black wrote:
>
> Anonymous,
>
> Not that I am questioning your story, because I am not.
> However I
> do think that the method you described for getting someone
> else's test
> scores is a bit.... disappointing.
>
> To be very specific it
> should be very hard to find out who failed a
> test. But it should be easily
> discovered who passed the test.
>
> I guess what I am saying there should be
> a way to verify any
> certification, but not who has taken the test and
> failed. If you ask
> me, the major flaw in Remedy's certification is the
> inability to
> easily verify the certifications. (IMHO) Even a simple email
> address
> lookup feature that returns a "yes"/"no" response would be enough
> for
> a truly certified person to be able to prove their credentials.
>
> If
> your employer paid for the class, then they might have a good
> reason to
> verify the success of the training. (And dependent on the
> terms and
> conditions in your company maybe ask for the employee to
> repay the expense
> due to a failure.)
>
> Personally, I would hope that someone from your
> company could contact
> Remedy's RSP program at SkilledPro@remedy.com. I
> would think that an
> email sent from an address at your company should
> afford a measure of
> authentication to inquiry about any employees of that
> company that has
> passed the RSP (or RAC) tests.
>
> If however, the
> individual paid for the class our of their own pocket,
> then the company
> should only be able to verify the persons current
> certification (If it
> exists.) and not even be told if the person took
> the class or not.
>
> And
> I would like to add that I am personally disappointed in the
> individual at
> BMC (Remedy) that verified that the person in question
> failed the test.
> (and failed it twice) I hope that the BMCRemedy
> people who are subscribed
> to the ARSList will read this thread and at
> least review their internal
> policies on such matters.
>
> The point of any training is to teach. That is
> not a simple
> process as we all learn in different ways and at different
> speeds.
> However, allowing a person to be embarrassed by past failure will
> only
> push them away from the very resources that could, in time, teach
> them
> what they are striving to learn.
>
> I guess this incident is just
> another reason some one should write an
> "ARS for dummy's" book and try to
> get it published. (Even if it is
> published on their own PC printer. No
> book as ever shamed you because
> you were unable to complete reading the
> book.)
>
> And while we are on the topic...
>
> Anyone want to bet how long
> RSP will even exist? Will it become BSP?
> (BMC Skilled Professional? Hey...
> they have started to re-brand the
> website... I can only imagine it is just
> a matter of time before the
> certification names change.)
>
> --
> Carey
> Matthew Black
> Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP)
> ARS = Action Request
> System(Remedy)
>
> Solution = People + Process + Tools
> Fast, Accurate,
> Cheap.... Pick two.
> Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained
> by incompetence.
>
> http://www.fellowshipchurch.com
>
> On Apr 4, 2005 7:04
> PM, Anonymous Remedy wrote:
> > Fellow Remedy
> Developers
> >
> > I would like to get some professional advice on how
> >
> best to handle a certain situation that has developed
> > within the group I
> work with. I have discovered that
> > one of my coworkers has been falsely
> claiming to have
> > completed the Remedy Skilled Professional
> >
> certification program. I found out this information
> > by chance while
> obtaining course information on the
> > RSP program from Remedy's Education
> department.
> > According to their database, the individual has taken
> >
> all required courses, but failed both the original and
> > re-take
> certification tests.
> >
> > The problem is further compounded as the
> employee
> > consistently informs newly hired managers within our
> >
> company of his completed certification status. Our
> > Assistant Director
> has also announced the employee's
> > "certification" to the rest of the
> department for
> > congratulations. Considering the potentially
> >
> embarrassing situation this will create with my own
> > managers, I would
> enjoy some advice on how best to
> > proceed with this information.
> Furthermore, should
> > anyone within Remedy's Education department be
> >
> informed of this?
> >
> > Remedy Anonymous
> > Senior Remedy Developer
>
>
>
>
> UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
> (Support:
> mailto:support@arslist.org)
>


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy
> Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of
> Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office
> E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V:
> 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in
> no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington.
> They are
> my
own.


UNSUBSCRIBE
> or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support:
> mailto:support@arslist.org)


> This posting was submitted
> via the Web interface


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.


UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at http://www.ARSLIST.org
(Support: mailto:support@arslist.org)

Remedyanon,

First and foremost, you need to be 100% sure of your information.

No decision should be made in a vacuum - you have told us little about the person. There are a great many factors that should influence how you go about it - while dealing with the person directly may be most honourable, it may not be the best way.

You must also consider the embarrassment/trouble if someone external found this out - if you are a consulting firm then this would be devastating.

I believe that each person should be given a chance, were in your place however, I would likely tell someone of sufficient responsibility/power in writing and allow them to share the burden.

Your choice is not an easy one - either you allow someone to take credit for something not accomplished and cheapen what others have achieved or wreck a person's career.

Best of luck.
Stephen
I do wonder how it is that the company did not follow-up on his/her accreditation.

"Mayfield, Andy L." wrote:
I would live and let live. Is there even a way to verify the information
you were given by BMC? God forbid you say something and your information
turns out to be incorrect, guess who will be looking foolish and petty
at that point. The only way I would even consider bringing it up is if I
were in direct competition with that individual for a position. In that
case I would address the issue with the individual directly.


>Andy L. Mayfield
>System Operation Specialist
>Alabama Power Company
Office: 8-226-1805


-----Original Message-----
From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList)
[mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of Covert, Jack
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 11:34 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Need Advice: False Remedy Certification

"I would however consider talking to this individual privately. I don't
know if that is possible for you or not. If you do, make sure that they
understand that you do it as a friend and that you have no intention of
using the information. Tell them that you are just hopeful that they
will
find a way themselves to "right" the problem."

I agree. I would go to him and work with him to correct the issue.

-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Baltimore [mailto:warrenbaltimore@GMAIL.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 9:25 AM
To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG
Subject: Re: Need Advice: False Remedy Certification

Well, both possible answers to this question have been proffered...Fry
'em or forget 'em. Lots of good things to say about both, but let me
throw in my two cents here....

I'm not a person who normally pulls religion out for a look, but this
is a pretty good place to do so. Of all the bible stories that I was
taught in CCD and 6 years of Catholic school, the one that ALWAYS on a
daily basis comes back to me is a very simple one. "He who is without
sin, cast the first stone". As humans, we have all made mistakes and
choices that are at best ethically/morally questionable. Sometimes we
get away with it and sometimes we get caught with our hands in the
cookie jar. If this person is doing the work that they have misled
people into thinking he/she can do. And if they are keeping their
commitments to the company, then I would say it's between that
individual and the managers. It is a pretty horrible thing to be in a
situation where you must affect the livelihood of another in a way
that can have LASTING repurcussions. In a former life, I worked in an
Employee Relations office for a large public hospital and I saw more
then my fair share of people "doing the right thing" for no other
reason then to blow a whistle. It cost people jobs and family. It is
not something that should be done lightly. So what am I saying? I'd
probably keep my mouth shut unless this is causing harm to others. I
would however consider talking to this individual privately. I don't
know if that is possible for you or not. If you do, make sure that
they understand that you do it as a friend and that you have no
intention of using the information. Tell them that you are just
hopeful that they will find a way themselves to "right" the problem.

Also, from a legal standpoint...and this is IMPORTANT. If you do
decide to say something, you run the risk of a lawsuit. Be sure you
have your ducks in a row.

Warren

On Apr 4, 2005 10:16 PM, Carey Matthew Black
wrote:
> Anonymous,
>
> Not that I am questioning your story, because I am not. However I
> do think that the method you described for getting someone else's test
> scores is a bit.... disappointing.
>
> To be very specific it should be very hard to find out who failed a
> test. But it should be easily discovered who passed the test.
>
> I guess what I am saying there should be a way to verify any
> certification, but not who has taken the test and failed. If you ask
> me, the major flaw in Remedy's certification is the inability to
> easily verify the certifications. (IMHO) Even a simple email address
> lookup feature that returns a "yes"/"no" response would be enough for
> a truly certified person to be able to prove their credentials.
>
> If your employer paid for the class, then they might have a good
> reason to verify the success of the training. (And dependent on the
> terms and conditions in your company maybe ask for the employee to
> repay the expense due to a failure.)
>
> Personally, I would hope that someone from your company could contact
> Remedy's RSP program at SkilledPro@remedy.com. I would think that an
> email sent from an address at your company should afford a measure of
> authentication to inquiry about any employees of that company that has
> passed the RSP (or RAC) tests.
>
> If however, the individual paid for the class our of their own pocket,
> then the company should only be able to verify the persons current
> certification (If it exists.) and not even be told if the person took
> the class or not.
>
> And I would like to add that I am personally disappointed in the
> individual at BMC (Remedy) that verified that the person in question
> failed the test. (and failed it twice) I hope that the BMCRemedy
> people who are subscribed to the ARSList will read this thread and at
> least review their internal policies on such matters.
>
> The point of any training is to teach. That is not a simple
> process as we all learn in different ways and at different speeds.
> However, allowing a person to be embarrassed by past failure will only
> push them away from the very resources that could, in time, teach them
> what they are striving to learn.
>
> I guess this incident is just another reason some one should write an
> "ARS for dummy's" book and try to get it published. (Even if it is
> published on their own PC printer. No book as ever shamed you because
> you were unable to complete reading the book.)
>
> And while we are on the topic...
>
> Anyone want to bet how long RSP will even exist? Will it become BSP?
> (BMC Skilled Professional? Hey... they have started to re-brand the
> website... I can only imagine it is just a matter of time before the
> certification names change.)
>
> --
> Carey Matthew Black
> Remedy Skilled Professional (RSP)
> ARS = Action Request System(Remedy)
>
> Solution = People + Process + Tools
> Fast, Accurate, Cheap.... Pick two.
> Never ascribe to malice, that which can be explained by incompetence.
>
> http://www.fellowshipchurch.com
>
> On Apr 4, 2005 7:04 PM, Anonymous Remedy wrote:
> > Fellow Remedy Developers
> >
> > I would like to get some professional advice on how
> > best to handle a certain situation that has developed
> > within the group I work with. I have discovered that
> > one of my coworkers has been falsely claiming to have
> > completed the Remedy Skilled Professional
> > certification program. I found out this information
> > by chance while obtaining course information on the
> > RSP program from Remedy's Education department.
> > According to their database, the individual has taken
> > all required courses, but failed both the original and
> > re-take certification tests.
> >
> > The problem is further compounded as the employee
> > consistently informs newly hired managers within our
> > company of his completed certification status. Our
> > Assistant Director has also announced the employee's
> > "certification" to the rest of the department for
> > congratulations. Considering the potentially
> > embarrassing situation this will create with my own
> > managers, I would enjoy some advice on how best to
> > proceed with this information. Furthermore, should
> > anyone within Remedy's Education department be
> > informed of this?
> >
> > Remedy Anonymous
> > Senior Remedy Developer
>
>



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>


--
Warren R. Baltimore II
Remedy Developer
UW Medicine IT Services
School of Medicine
University of Washington
Box 358220
1325 Fourth Ave, Suite 2000
Seattle, WA 98101
Office E: warrenb@u.washington.edu
Personal E: warrenbaltimore@gmail.com
V: 206-543-7392
F: 206-221-4745

The opinions expressed in this e-mail are in no way those of the
University of Washington, or the State of Washington. They are my
own.




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ARS 5.1.2
Oracel 9i


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